UESPWiki:Community Portal

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This is the main discussion forum used for community-wide discussions about UESP's operations, policies, design, and improvement.

All members of the community are welcome to contribute to this page. Please sign and date your post by typing ~~~~ or clicking the signature icon in the edit toolbar. If you would like to start a new inquiry, please place it at the bottom of the page with a two-tier (==) heading.

Before starting a discussion here, please review the list of other community pages below, as your question or suggestion may be more appropriate on another page.

Other pages for community-wide or general questions include:

Specific requests can be made on these pages:

  • Bot Requests — This page can be used to request that one of the wiki's bots take on a task.
  • Image Requests — You can request specific images for articles here.
  • Creation Kit Information Requests — You can request specific Creation Kit information for articles here.
  • New Page Requests — You can request a new page here if you were prevented from creating the page yourself.
  • Purge Requests — If you are having problems viewing an article on UESP, the page may need to be purged. New purge requests can be made here.

In addition, past discussions from the Community Portal can be found at:

  • CP Archives — Lists all of the past discussions from the Community Portal page, including major discussions and chronlogical archives.
Active Discussions

Many discussions of community-wide interest are held on pages other than the community portal. Discussions about specific policies belong on the policy talk pages, for example. The following table lists other discussions that are currently in progress on other talk pages. If you start a discussion on another talk page, please add it to this list. If a discussion listed here has been inactive (i.e., no comments of any type in at least a week), please remove it from the list.

Location Date started Topic Listed here by

UESP App Available for Open Beta Testing[edit]

We've been slowly working on the UESP app over the past few months and are happy to announce that it is now available for open beta testing from the Google Play Store. Feedback and bug reports can be posted to the Mobile App Talk Page. -- Daveh (talk) 16:31, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Official Cookbook interview - looking for questions![edit]

We were recently contacted by the publisher of the upcoming The Elder Scrolls: The Official Cookbook, and after exchanging some emails, he’s offered us the chance to submit interview questions to the author (Chelsea Cassel-Monroe, author of the World of Warcraft official cookbook). Her website, specifically the page about the cookbook, can be found here. From what the author has said in the past, it sounds like the focus of this one is the main series, and even though she couldn’t include actual ESO recipes due to licensing, did take inspiration from some of them and the lore of the races. Does anyone have any questions they’d like ask? ~ Alarra (talkcontribs) 20:38, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Interview on the Isle of Madness Expansion for The Elder Scrolls: Legends - Seeking Questions![edit]

Hi everyone! After speaking to folks in Bethesda's PR department, we have been given the opportunity to host another Legends interview, similar to our Pete Hines interview from last year. This time we will be talking to Josh Utter-Leyton, one of the card designers at Sparkypants Studios, who also worked on the game at Dire Wolf Digital. We expressed an interest in asking questions that focused on the background, lore, and story of the new Isle of Madness expansion, but if you are desperate to ask a question that goes beyond those topics, feel free to still let us know.

Please post your questions below, and thank you to Bethesda and Sparkypants Studios for allowing us to have this interview!

- KriHavok (talk) 13:16, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Baliwogs, grummites, and scalons are classified as grummites in the game's cards. Should we take this as a confirmation that they are infact related in lore? Similarly, Gnarls are listed as spriggans, are gnarls listed as spriggans for balance reasons or are they actually related to Nirn's spriggans? Is there a chance we can see a shadowrend monthly card in honor of the shivering isles? Ex. ESO's shadowrend clannfear and weapon double card. If you guys ask questions about game mechanics, id like to ask if a card flavor text system will ever get implemented, such as lore on the depiction or maybe which person the card depicts if any. Zebendal (talk) 18:29, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
When do the events of "Isle of Madness" take place? Is Jyggalag really free after the events of "Shivering Isles"? Did the Hero of Kvatch really become the new Sheogorath or did he just went insane? Why Luzrah gro-Shar, a female orc, isn't named "gra-Shar" according to the orcs naming traditions? Phoenix Neko (talk) 22:40, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Tables In Templates[edit]

In any of our templates that allow an unlimited number of unnamed parameters, like {{Parameters}} or {{Lore Book Compilation}}, it was previously impossible to use MediaWiki-style tables in the parameter list, even with the proper escaping of pipes and equals signs; you were forced to use HTML tables. After looking into it, I found a hack of a method which I believe should work in all cases. I just wanted to post about it so that if anyone spots any issues with templates of that nature, we can back it out sooner rather than later. Please let me know if you spot any such issues.

Robin Hood  (talk) 01:16, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

ESO Red Choice Template[edit]

{{ESO Red Choice}}

Since the proposal didn't get much attention on the talk page, can we please take a look at how this template functions? It acts to hide branching dialogue paths by default on ESO pages, which is unhelpful and non-standard. The use of this template has proliferated in that namespace and I really think it needs to be changed to utilise a better format if it's going to be accepted as the norm. As it stands, I'm strongly opposed to its use while it continues to hide text from the page. There is no reason for it to use a show/hide function, particularly when the dialogue being hidden is usually only a sentence or two in length. —Legoless (talk) 15:01, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Other than adding categories to check dialogue I'm not too sure why this template is necessary. You can achieve the same result (without showhides) using {{FC}}. Either way, sounds like a good idea to change the showhides to indents. —Dillonn241 (talk) 18:23, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Skyrim Abilities/Powers Footer[edit]

Dillon pointed me towards our unused templates list the other day, and in the process of going through the small number remaining (most of which are substituted or temporary-use templates), I noticed a template that Lurlock worked on several years back, {{Skyrim Abilities}}, which seems to have been forgotten and gone unused all these years. It overlaps somewhat with {{Skyrim Powers}}, but also has several links that aren't in the powers template. Before I put it up for deletion, does anyone think it could be added to some pages, or is there anything on it that should be merged into other footer templates? Most page deletions are relatively non-controversial, but this one could serve a purpose, so I wanted to draw people's attention to it before it gets deleted. Robin Hood  (talk) 03:16, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

I noticed there are things in the Abilities template that don't exist in the Powers template like the Seeker of Sorcery and the Seeker of Shadows abilities. Mind you, those are constant effect abilities, not powers per se. If they don't have their own in-use template, I don't see what it hurts to add them and any others that are missing to the Powers template, seeing as they are on the DB:Powers page already. Just an idea. the raconteur 20:56, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Upcoming Upgrade to MW 1.25[edit]

As many of you have noticed, Dave is in the process of planning an upgrade to MediaWiki 1.25. Here's a quick outline of the changes you can expect to see.

  • The Recent Changes and Watchlist pages will change to use the enhanced version by default.
  • Page icons are now supported natively. The means that templates like {{Page Icon}} can be greatly simplified, and perhaps even removed altogether in some cases. (Though, for consistency reasons, it's probably better to continue to use templates regardless.) See this page for details.
  • For administrators, the Tags and a new EditTags special pages apparently allow more changing of tags, such as adding and removing tags, or changing tags on a revision. I don't currently have any wikis where I can check out the changes, so we'll have to see what they look like after the upgrade. (Honestly, I didn't even know the page existed until now. :P)
  • Supposedly, "Clickable anchors for each section heading in the content are now generated and appear in the gutter on hovering over the heading." I tried what I thought this meant on several wikis, but was unable to see anything. Still, if it's there somewhere that I just didn't notice, it could be a useful feature. If anyone figures out what this meant and how to see the clickable list, please comment!
  • Wanted Pages will no longer list broken redirects. It's unclear if {{#ifexist:...}} will still add pages to it, but we already have a solution for that issue anyway.

There are numerous other technical changes. For the full list, see the release notes. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:31, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

"Clickable anchors" are an icon beside a header that when clicked on produces an url with the section included. What icon is used for that is unknown but can probably be modified. An example appears on mediawiki (under proposed implementation). This is almost totally a reader-based change for better linking to us on other sites, as it produces an url and not the shortened form used on internal links. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 22:08, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, Silencer! I don't see that on any wikis that I'm on, so either it's something I or the site have disabled or, contrary to what the documentation says, it was not implemented on MediaWiki wikis. I'm curious, do you or anyone else see it on other wikis that are 1.25 or later? Robin Hood  (talk) 22:39, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Usage of Actual Military Awards for Project Ribbons[edit]

So I was looking at the images that we're currently using for Projects on the site. These are used by the Ribbon template, and the images are found in Category:UESP-Ribbons. They were evidently downloaded from [1]. The artwork is in the public domain, so it isn't an issue of copyright infringement. However, these are actual military service awards, awarded to actual people for their service. While I have never served in the military, I do know that people who have tend to take this sort of thing very seriously, and usage of these images for contributing to a website for video games may be seen as disrespectful of those who have legitimately earned them. I'm not opposed to the idea of using images like these for site projects, but I think it might be best to alter them in such a way that they do not have this alternate meaning, which some might find offensive. The simplest alteration would be just adjusting the hue - we could even theme them to our site colors, or something specific to the games associated with each of the projects. This would be the least disruptive change that could be made, and might be sufficient to avoid any misinterpretation of these images. Alternatively, we could design new graphics that are more representative of their use - using graphics from the games, for example. (Right now, it's kind of hard to tell which ribbon is which if you don't know them well.) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:57, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

I would agree with designing something new, as I also found it odd that we used these when I was looking for something for the Modspace Project. I'd be happy to try designing something new, or helping out with anyone else who wants to. I would also suggest we aim at designing to {{Userbox}} dimensions, although with the 100px width continuing as default. --Enodoc (talk) 15:13, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
I like the idea of using game images, since those would (at least in theory) be more representative of the actual project. Someone involved in the Oblivion Houses Redesign Project might get OB-mapicon-Settlement.png, while someone involved in the Skyrim Houses Redesign Project might get SR-mapicon-Shack.png. Sizing might be a bit of an issue if we go that route, though, since even just those two are at 48x48 and 40x40 natively. Where previously, the ribbons were all the same size, now they become different or we have to scale them to the same size, which could look blurry for smaller originals. If we go with something completely new, we could keep sizing in mind as things are designed. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:02, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
These should be changed, but I don't think they need to look much different, just changing the colors. I would like to see colors that reflect the game (orange and blue for Arena, yellow and black for Morrowind, etc.) Either the initials for the project or an icon like RH said, could be added to make it clear what the project is about. One issue right now is that you see a bunch of ribbons but they are meaningless to almost everyone (even after all my time on the wiki I couldn't identify a single one). —Dillonn241 (talk) 22:13, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, ideally we'd want to keep them the same dimensions (or at least aspect ratio) as before, to avoid messing up the layout on everyone's user pages. But I could see incorporating the icons into an image of the proper size, with colors themed to each of the games as well. That would make these images both more informative and make them fit better with the theme of the site. "I'mASnugglyTeddyBal" on Discord was talking about whipping up some designs (I'm not sure what name they use here), so we might want to coordinate our efforts. I'd say the project leads should come up with something, but some of these projects aren't very active any more, and in some cases their leads have left the site altogether. Colors and icons may need to be chosen on a per-project or at least per-game basis for consistency. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 02:02, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

() For what it's worth, I think continued use of the ribbon graphics is fine and it's a little disheartening to have the graphics changed after so many years. If we are going to change them, I would be opposed to anything that lacks consistency, as one of the great benefits of using those graphics has been the consistent style. —Legoless (talk) 21:17, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Gamespaces for Skyrim Pinball and Skyrim Very Special Edition[edit]

I believe that both of these games should get their own namespace. Skyrim Pinball is proving to be substantial, and will likely have several long pages to summarize all information (I currently have only documented subsets of information and have it all on a single long page in my sandbox.). I would propose creation of the 'Pinball' namespace, with 'PIN' as the code for it.

For VSE, we currently have 6 pages of moderate length. I think it would be a good idea to add 4 more pages to separate out the different dungeons. At 10 pages, I think it is substantial enough to have its own namespace. I know this is a change to the decision made last summer, but I think it addresses what is a strange outlier in our current organization. 'VSE' should be the code. I'm not sure what the namespace should be called: Perhaps 'Alexa' or 'VerySpecial', maybe just 'VSE'.

Of the two, I believe the first proposal is more important. --Lost in Hyrule (talk) 15:29, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree with the first purposal. Zebendal (talk) 17:42, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
My personal view is that this would be way too small for a separate namespace, but then again we have already done that for each of the TES Travels, and Stormhold, Dawnstar, and OBMob each have fewer than 50 pages. There may be an argument for just shoving each of them into Skyrim as a subspace, rather than creating separate namespaces for them. But if we can get the expected number of pages to over 30 for each one, then precedent would say yes to their own namespaces. --Enodoc (talk) 23:13, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
I do not fully understand the 'too small for a namespace' argument. When it comes to DLC within an existing game, it seems reasonable, but not for a standalone game.
If we were to put these two games as subcategories of Skyrim, then searching for 'quests' in the Skyrim namespace would also bring back VSE and Pinball, which is likely unwanted. If we do not add a namespace, then we will have page names such as 'Quests (Pinball)', 'Quests (VSE)', 'Spells (Pinball)', 'Enemies (VSE)'. Organizationally, this is the same as 'Pinball:Quests', 'VSE:Enemies', etc. However, we forego the search benefits of namespaces, and the 'Magic Word' functionality they provide.
To my current understanding, either path we choose means we have the same small number of pages with their own label system. One path has a few technical benefits. What drawbacks are incurred by the namespace approach? --Lost in Hyrule (talk) 00:35, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
I think Lost in Hyrule's points are the biggest ones in favour of separate namespaces. Having worked on a few wikis where the norm is to disambiguate games by putting them in parentheses after the name, it gets irritating fairly quickly, plus it clashes with our traditional system of each game getting its own namespace (give or take a few exceptions). Namespaces are just easier to deal with, since you can include/exclude them in searches, recent changes, your watchlist, and anywhere else that you can select a namespace. It's also easier to deal with in terms of templates. If you disambiguate by name only, you lose all of that functionality.
Having said that, a namespace with only ten or so pages is pretty small. By that criteria, I should have my own namespace! (Can I, can I, huh? Pretty please?) Looking only at gamespace pages (so, ignoring things like mod spaces and Review), and discounting Blades since it isn't out yet, our smallest namespace is currently Stormhold with 32 pages, 7 of which are redirects.
In the end, I'm leaning slightly in favour of separate namespaces for each, but it's not really a major issue either way. Also, from a technical standpoint, the difference is minimal between the two. Honestly, the hardest part is Dave or I having to redesign the search menu to fit however many new namespaces we decide on, which is still fairly trivial. Robin Hood  (talk) 07:17, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
I am categorically against any suggestion that these spinoffs be placed in Skyrim subspaces. They have nothing to do with TES5, and it would be entirely inconsistent with our approach to Oblivion Mobile and Oblivion PSP. If a new namespace is needed instead, so be it, but I also don't see a problem with using mainspace. The most important thing should be getting these pages live. —Legoless (talk) 13:41, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Size doesn't matter. If a game needs a namespace it gets a namespace. I had been dubious about SVSE being a standalone game until I read Legoless post above. It is exactly as different to the console version as the mobile and PSP versions are to Oblivion. It isn't "Skyrim Pinball" it is "Bethesda Pinball", and the game uses the Fallout and DOOM franchise as settings too. The game uses these three as skins and it doesn't seem that we could only cover one part of that game without covering the others. I don't really see it as part of the Elder Scrolls franchise either, it's an unconnected commodity using the licensed name to generate interest, like Skyrim Monopoly (Fallout version also available). Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 22:14, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
It'd be easy to cover the Skyrim table without touching the others. "Bethesda Pinball" is just a collection; sure you can't get the Skyrim table separately from the other two, but you can't get any of them without Pinball FX, so that particular red line is unnecessary. "The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim® Pinball" is the official name of that table, so "Skyrim Pinball" would be a correct contraction. You're right that it's not really connected to the franchise, but that discussion has already passed. --Enodoc (talk) 22:30, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

() Considering that in over 2 years since that discussion there is no article even mentioning it, I would strongly disagree that that discussion is over and done with. If as you say the table is just one part of an even larger game, it makes it even harder to see how it can be argued that it is an Elder Scrolls game. The particulars of the table belong on a Pinball FX wiki, not an Elder Scrolls series of games wiki. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 22:40, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Whatever platform it is on, it is possible to only play the Skyrim table and never touch any of the others. Each table is a distinct 'game' within a collection of games supported by Pinball FX, which is basically a platform or engine. Just like all my Epic Games are on the Epic Games Launcher, all my Zen pinball games are on Pinball FX3.
Skyrim Pinball is Elder Scrolls and a game, so I believe it belongs here. My argument for a namespace is that these games both satisfy the basic reason we utilize them at all: an independent game that has the same page titles as other games (e.g. Quests, Magic, Weapons). If a game can be documented in a single page, then I would certainly agree a namespace would be pointless. Once you start having shared page titles is where we suggest to use them. Page count seems a less than perfect metric for this determination. For example, I looked at the Stormhold namespace mentioned by RH. 25 pages and 7 redirects, but most of the pages are quite short. For Pinball, I was thinking to organize them on rather long pages, one for Items and one for Quests. However, I could break Quests into a list page, one page for each of the 11 Main Quests, and a page for Side Quests, giving me 13 pages. Many of these pages would be longer than the Main Quest page of Stormhold. I could likewise break Items into a list page, Weapons, Armor, Jewelry, Potions, and maybe a separate Crafting page, and these would still be longer than the item pages in Stormhold. So my organization style would give 2 pages, but the Stormhold standard would produce 18.
From the discussion here, it seems the only downside to adding the namespaces is that RH has to add an entry on a list. I think the small benefits of namespace outweigh that small drawback, as much as I like RH! :P However, I will go ahead and document in mainspace. If we conclude that a namespace is warranted, we can move the pages over. --Lost in Hyrule (talk) 00:46, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
This discussion has derailed a little into "should we document skyrim pinball, take 2". If we have to reopen this discussion agan, then so be it. But in the end, both VSE and Skyrim Pinball (if we decide to document it (again)) are separate games that, while heavily taking setting inspiration from TES V: Skyrim, have a completely different underlying game system, and therefore warrant an unique namespace. And RobinHood, once you stop being a wiki contributor and start becoming a TES game, you'll get your own namespace, too ;-) -- SarthesArai Talk 13:15, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Use of Pre-Release Template[edit]

I’m on mobile, so I apologize for any formatting issues, but I wanted clarity for my own understanding of the Pre-Release template and appropriate uses for it.

https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Blades:Abyss&diff=next&oldid=1941777 being “current” and correct for a game that hasn’t been officially released doesn’t mean a pre-release template is unwarranted altogether, right? The game is in early access, but it’s not fully released yet, meaning any information contained within is therefore posted “before the official release” and theoretically subject to change, correct? That’s why I added that template to every Blades page I saw that didn’t already have it, and it seems appropriate to keep it until we’re told the game has been officially released, right? Or am I not understanding the “proper” use of the template when I add it? -damon  talkcontribs 14:49, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

My understanding of the {{Pre-Release}} template is that it's for any information that we put out prior to the official release. While Blades may be in Early Access, and no longer under an NDA (according to their FAQ), as far as I know, it's still officially pre-release, and therefore the tag would apply. If it weren't, then the "pre-order" button available on the website would just say "order". That all being said, I haven't been part of pre-release efforts for a very long time, and I only see a very brief mention of it on Discord, at least in the channels I follow, so others may feel differently. Robin Hood  (talk) 15:03, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
I can't really comment on Blades, as I don't (can't) play it, but I can comment on how it works for ESO and suggest parallels. Pre-release for ESO is everything that comes from before the release of content on the Live server, which includes anything from the PTS server and anything from ZOS publicity. When something is verified on the Live server, that's when the Pre-Release tag is removed, even if it is during the "Early Access" period on the Live server. So for Blades, if their Early Access acts as a beta, like the ESO PTS, Pre-Release would be appropriate; if it is literally an early release of content that won't now be changed, like the ESO Early Access on the Live server, Pre-Release would be unnecessary. --Enodoc (talk) 11:22, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
This was discussed in Discord yesterday at some length, and the gist of the discussion matched what Enodoc said above. So, as I understand it, Pre-Release tags can be removed from Blades articles provided that the information is verified in the Early Access version of the game. They shouldn't be removed en masse, however, as some information may have been taken from the beta version of the game and still requires verification that it's accurate for the EA version. Robin Hood  (talk) 17:18, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
This is also my understanding of the tag's usage, although it should prove less of an issue now that early access has been opened up to more people. Blades had a beta separate from early access, which counts as an official release for our purposes even if the devs haven't called it that. —Legoless (talk) 17:18, 22 April 2019 (UTC)