User talk:Legoless/Arc 2015a

This is an archive of previous comments on my talk page. Please do not post a message here - use this link to go to the active page instead.

Overuse of the "undo" option.Edit

You know, I may have been posting a lot of stuff that isn't really notable enough to be put on this site, but that doesn't mean you (and a lot of other users on this site for that matter) can just revert everything I do willy-nilly. Take for example the recent edits I made to Shivering:Staada. Yes, I can see why pointing out her being a brunette/redhead as opposed to being blonde like the other Aureals may not seem noteworthy enough to actually put on her article, but her being a boss in TES Online is noteworthy. I can understand that you want the Wiki to be kept as professional as possible, but reverting an entire edit someone made just for adding a few bits of speculation or trivial information along with it just seems lazy and rude.

So could you please heed my words: If you feel the need to change my edits, instead of outright undoing what I did, either edit the offending content out manually, or rephrase it to make it seem more appropriate for a Wiki article. Reverts should only be done for stuff like vandalism or completely false information. Bauglir100 (talk) 09:45, 1 January 2015 (GMT)

There's no reason to be offended by having an edit reverted, manual or not. If you feel like your revision was warranted, you can take it up on the talk page or ask the specific editor why they undid it. I would recommend that you read over our style guide to get a better feel for the kind of content we're looking for, or to maybe contact a mentor. —Legoless (talk) 10:12, 1 January 2015 (GMT)

I second the above, reverts are not meant to offend. That said, however, I do agree the undo button is quickly pressed (by me as well), and I think some of the content Bauglir100 added was noteworthy enough (referring to the Staada appearance in Online, and the Aureals being similar to these Aurorans). Not pointing fingers, just thought Bauglir100 needs to see they're not alone on this ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 15:08, 1 January 2015 (GMT)

Look, it doesn't matter if you meant to be offensive or not, completely undoing someone else's edit that they probably worked very hard on can still anger/frustrate them anyway, especially when the reverts are being done by the same people again and again, and when no attempt is made by those people to restore the stuff added in that is noteworthy. Just reverting everything without checking to see what's noteworthy and what isn't is the sign of a person that clearly lacks the patience and tolerance that's needed when editing on sites like this.

I mean, do you want people to add stuff or not? I might as well not even bother logging in if all people are going to do is revert all my edits over one little sentence. It really hurts the enjoyment I get out of playing these games if I'm not allowed to share my own insights, whether in the articles or the talk pages.Bauglir100 (talk) 02:11, 2 January 2015 (GMT)

I don't believe anyone is undoing your edits without checking for noteworthy segments first. Speaking only for myself, I was opposed to the entirety of any revisions that I reverted. It is indeed good manners to perform a partial undo and reword any worthwhile additions, and personally I endeavour to do that - no one likes a deletionist. If you wish to share your insights, I recommend visiting the forums, where you can discuss the games with others. —Legoless (talk) 02:53, 2 January 2015 (GMT)

QuestionEdit

Hey, can you tell me why image captions should not have any full stops (periods) at the end? Thanks. – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 22:02, 1 January 2015 (GMT)

It was decided not to include them in captions that aren't proper sentences. For example, "Hlidara Mothril in Leyawiin" doesn't need one, while "Hlidara Mothril is a citizen of Leyawiin." does. —Legoless (talk) 22:08, 1 January 2015 (GMT)

OK, thanks. – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 23:11, 1 January 2015 (GMT)

UESP (EU) Guild Bank emptiedEdit

Since you do not seem to have been playing ESO these latest days, I want to bring to your attention that the Guild Bank of the EU server UESP Guild has been emptied sometime yesterday. —MortenOSlash (talk) 21:30, 3 January 2015 (GMT)

Thanks, I'll sort it out. —Legoless (talk) 21:41, 3 January 2015 (GMT)

Just to update anyone that was interested, the offending player has been kicked from the guild and a lot of the stuff that survived is being returned to the bank from safekeeping. —Legoless (talk) 20:18, 7 January 2015 (GMT)

... A UESP bank heist? We should have a news story. "The UESP Guild Bank of the EU was robbed today..." Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 02:27, 8 January 2015 (GMT)

It happened once before actually. EU guild is small enough for a trust system. —Legoless (talk) 02:28, 8 January 2015 (GMT)

I guess the "trust system" needs evaluation. And, ME, your title is not sensationalised enough to be a good read. :p -damon ^{talk ♥ contribs} 02:31, 8 January 2015 (GMT)

We decided in chat to leave it as-is, since otherwise it would only be me and Enodoc who could take anything out. Besides, two incidents in 9 months isn't too bad. —Legoless (talk) 02:36, 8 January 2015 (GMT)

That was the first sentence, not the headline! For the headline, I'm thinking, "UESP Bank Cleared Out in Daring Daylight Raid!" ... It was daytime, right? Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 02:39, 8 January 2015 (GMT)

I do not know the exact local time in Tamriel, but the reason it was discovered in time to prevent some of the damage, was because it took some time to do. Some guild members realised what was happening, and at least one of them secured large parts of the values by withdrawing it for safekeeping after discovering what happened. This reduced the damage substantially. —MortenOSlash (talk) 06:55, 8 January 2015 (GMT)

Category:Online-PlacesEdit

Hi Legoless! I am trying to add this category to the Online:Guildhalls page, unsuccessfully... I am looking at the {{Trail}} template and at the Online:Camps and Online:Ayleid Ruins pages and I believe it should've worked the first time, but it did not. When I go to the category page, Guildhalls are not on the list. Could you please point out what I am doing wrong? Thanks! - Shuryard (talk) 16:34, 12 January 2015 (GMT)

Category:Online-Places-Guildhalls wasn't set up correctly, it should be working now. —Legoless (talk) 16:39, 12 January 2015 (GMT)

It does, thank you! I think I got it :) - Shuryard (talk) 16:44, 12 January 2015 (GMT)

Reverting the undoEdit

Hey there Legoless. You undid my edit on the Races page because I removed "Acrobat" from the image descriptions. I went and did my research, and found there are two different types of clothes your character can wear (depending on what sub-class you chose)Link. This being the case, the tunics that are currently labeled as Acrobat outfits apply to many different classes, so the word Acrobat should not be in the descriptions (I was wrong on my first edit summary, all classes and sub-classes do not wear the same clothes).

Anyway my point is I'm here to ask if you could undo your revert. I'm not trying to be a whiny kid who wants their edit back (although I have trouble finiding wording that makes it not sound like that :/), I just don't see anything wrong with the edit.

Thanks in advance! --Emitewiki2 (talk) 20:59, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

'Acrobat' is mentioned in the image descriptions to distinguish it from the Mage class(es?). The significance of this is explained in the Notes section of the page (i.e., different outfits). The Acrobat class is simply being mentioned as an example; calling the image a "male Wood Elf non-Mage" is a mouthful. There's nothing inherently wrong with labelling the images as Acrobats, even if it could equally represent a range of other classes. For consistency's sake, it would be a lot better to simply create new "non-Mage" images for the High Elves, and move the current ones to the Notes section to illustrate the "Mage outfit". I noticed that you uploaded a similar image earlier - maybe you could create new ones for the High Elves? That way we won't have to specify classes in the descriptions at all. —Legoless (talk) 21:08, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

The only thing is, if you look at the image I linked to, not only Mage classes wear the robes. For example, Bards (which are a Theif sub-class) wear the same robes as mages or sorcerers.

Also, the way the images are arranged now (one on top of the other) leave large open spaces that aren't exactly aesthetically pleasing. Emitewiki2 (talk) 21:17, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

Oh, my bad, didn't notice the layout was reverted as well. I'll go fix that. As for the robes, the note obviously needs to be adjusted if it's not only Mage classes who look like that. Do you have the full list of which class wears what? Regardless, I still think it would be good to standardise the race images to a single outfit. —Legoless (talk) 21:26, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

(←) I agree with standardising all the images, which I can do (it would also be nice if all the images could eventually be .gifs of all the customization options for every race). I don't have a full list of which class wears what, I just know the eight ones that I've tried starting as. I can, however, go through and make a full list that I'll put on my sandbox page. Emitewiki2 (talk) 21:35, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

Great. —Legoless (talk) 21:38, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

(edit conflict) Maybe you could have gifs for not only hairstyles, but also outfit. For example, you'd have it go through all the hairstyles, while at half of those, the outfit is changed as well (if there are just two outfits) ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 21:40, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

That could be done, but it would take twice the effort and it would require replacing all current race images. A single robed male and female image in the notes section seems sufficient enough in my opinion. —Legoless (talk) 22:09, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

If I ever get the time and feel like doing it, I can make that happen. But as Legoless said, it would take twice the work. Emitewiki2 (talk) 22:31, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

Brawl BugEdit

It has just occured to me, this bug pertains to all brawls, not just Uthgerd. Would it be something to put on the 'Fight! Fight!' page only? ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 23:43, 21 January 2015 (GMT)

I've never encountered it, so I wouldn't really know. I'd tend to agree if that was the case though. —Legoless (talk) 23:45, 21 January 2015 (GMT)

ESO DLCEdit

Hey Legoless, where did you find all this stuff about future ESO DLC (Clockwork City etc.)? I couldn't find it anywhere on the ESO website. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 01:19, 22 January 2015 (GMT)

It was on the Twitch stream today. It starts at 20 minutes in. —Legoless (talk) 01:20, 22 January 2015 (GMT)

Got it, thanks. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 01:22, 22 January 2015 (GMT)

Roleplaying Ideas Page - your thought, please?Edit

I had reverted that edit, because the body of it was this:

"oh, i dont know what its called but its like the dragon armor thing in dragonborn dlc, you could.use that for susanoo, and for curse mark|sharringan, become a vampire lord. if you wanna go even more extreme, learn some conjuration to start to learn some summons. if you wanna go old school, do the assassin guild glitch to get four followers (to ressemble taka) youll see videos of it on youtube for sure."

It didn't match with the flow of the article itself, it's more of a first-person suggestion that would be found on a talk page as opposed to an actual supplement to the body. Not to mention it's a horrible demonstration of the Queen's English. But, since it is in fact a user's page with explicit editing permission, rather than a regular article, I'd cave if you felt like it should stay, since I am really uncertain how to handle a situation like this and had just taken a guess at what it ought to be. -damon ^{talk ♥ contribs} 14:52, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

It's not a destructive edit, and the page is already kind of inundated with a first person POV. It's really up to PsijicOrder to decide what's not allowed on the page. After all, better for edits of that nature to be confined to a userspace overflow page than to be added to the wiki proper. I believe that was the idea behind userfying the roleplay pages in the first place - it used to be a big part of the wiki, and having to clean up edits like the above proved to be counterproductive. I guess it doesn't really matter whether or not the above edit is kept, but personally I don't see a good reason to revert. —Legoless (talk) 14:59, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

Hail, Doyen!Edit

Well, since it seems no one else is going to do it (on your talk page, at least), let me say,congratulations of achieving some semblance of TES immortality!

I was strongly considering adding some links to Moon Hunal's Q&A, when I noticed that United Explorers of Scholarly Pursuits is "lore linked" already. Which begs the question, what would a lore page for the UESP look like? Am I the only one thinking about this?? I can't say I'm entirely opposed to the idea on principle ... Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 18:25, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

Thanks haha. I added a lore link for UESP on Emeric's Q&A as well. There was a discussion at Lore talk:Scenarist Guild about the canonicity of the Q&A username and it seems like consensus is against treating it as in-universe lore, but I'd be open to the idea of sneaking it in somewhere... —Legoless (talk) 18:36, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

I like this. I approve. Jeancey (talk) 18:40, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

I just found out about that and that is awesome! Congrats Legoless! Lorenut (talk) 18:53, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

I like this too :P --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 18:56, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

Just trying to emulate Enodoc's success. :P —Legoless (talk) 18:59, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

Heheh, I was quite pleased with that actually. They answered the question that I wanted them to answer, that being "Is Craglorn neutral?", which was great. Hopefully I'll get the opportunity to find out if Wrothgar and Murkmire are neutral as well...

Lego, do you think we should update the EU guild rank names? eg. Doyen - Savant - Pundit - Recruit. Since we've used them, it would be nice to keep them. I added "Pundit" as I think "Member" is a bit boring :P --Enodoc (talk) 23:20, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

Yeah, I don't mind. Do you have the rights or will I need to make the change? —Legoless (talk) 23:26, 24 January 2015 (GMT)

I think it's probably something you will need to do :) --Enodoc (talk) 17:54, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

Done. —Legoless (talk) 20:34, 26 January 2015 (GMT)

Flow chart?Edit

As part of Tienius' dialogue regarding "official matter", I feel like it could do with a flow chart to make it easier to read. Some of it is duplicated and... Maybe you should see for yourself...

- - Tell me more.: "There are rumors among the people about King Llethan's death. Rumors that Athyn Llethan did not die a natural death. There's no truth to them, of course. Speak to the people about King Llethan's death. You are not known to them as my representative, and they may be more candid with you. Let me know if you find the source of these rumors."
    - I'll take care of it.: "Good. Report to me when you've learned the source of the rumors about King Llethan's death."
    - Ask whether Athyn Llethan died a natural death.:
      - "That's a silly question. I don't like silly questions."
      - [Disposition ≥ 70] "There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Athyn Llethan died anything but a natural death. I assure you. Absolutely no evidence."
        I'll take care of it.: "Good. Report to me when you've learned the source of the rumors about King Llethan's death."
- "Let me know when you've learned the source of the rumors about King Llethan's death."
  I'm not interested.: "I see. Then we haven't much to talk about. If you change your mind, I'll be here." Goodbye
  - I'm not interested.: "I see. Then we haven't much to talk about. If you change your mind, I'll be here." Goodbye
  - Show him evidence Helseth tried to have your killed.: "I won't pretend I don't know about this. Of course, I'll deny it publicly. But don't take it personally. You appeared to present a threat to King Helseth. Perhaps mistakes were made. But you can prove they were mistakes, if you can prove your loyalty to King Helseth. So. Are you interested in helping me with my problem?"
    - Tell me more.: "There are rumors among the people about King Llethan's death. Rumors that Athyn Llethan did not die a natural death. There's no truth to them, of course. Speak to the people about King Llethan's death. You are not known to them as my representative, and they may be more candid with you. Let me know if you find the source of these rumors."
    - I'm not interested.: "I see. Then we haven't much to talk about. If you change your mind, I'll be here." Goodbye
      - I'll take care of it.: "Good. Report to me when you've learned the source of the rumors about King Llethan's death."
      - Ask whether Athyn Llethan died a natural death.:
        "That's a silly question. I don't like silly questions."
        
        [Disposition ≥ 70] "There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Athyn Llethan died anything but a natural death. I assure you. Absolutely no evidence."
        I'll take care of it.: "Good. Report to me when you've learned the source of the rumors about King Llethan's death."
- "Let me know when you've learned the source of the rumors about King Llethan's death."

I'm not interested.: "I see. Then we haven't much to talk about. If you change your mind, I'll be here." Goodbye

See what I mean? Many duplicates, including "I'm not interested.", "I'll take care of it.", "Tell me more." et cetera. I'm no good with flow charts. So, what do you think of my ideas? – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 09:25, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

I'm not very good with flowcharts either I'm afraid. Maybe you could try to minimize repetition in some other way, or you could just leave it as-is and include it all. —Legoless (talk) 12:23, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

Maybe RH is good with flowcharts? On another note, how were you thinking of minimizing repetition? – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 13:56, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

I wouldn't say I'm "good" with flowcharts, it's more along the lines of I understood how they work. I'm not sure if anybody's actually good with them; they're just so complex. Ehlnofex Languages will give you a good idea of how arcane the coding for them is. There's also the secondary problem that even if I can create one, they're fairly inaccessible to new or even moderately experienced editors. There are certainly times when they're useful and necessary, but I'm not convinced this is one of them, since nothing else I'm aware of uses charts for NPC dialogue.

To cut down on duplication, I'd suggest going for an inline approach, as has been done on some pages. For example (quotes are shortened for the sake of example):

If you speak to Tienius about the evidence, he will say "I won't pretend..." then if you talk to him about Athyn dying a natural death, he'll say "That's a silly question...". If at any point you tell him you'll take care of it, he'll say "Good. Report to me...". Alternatively, you can tell him you're not interested, in which case he will respond "I see. ..."

That's not the whole thing, obviously, but you get the idea. The "different" dialogue is put first, then everything that's the same through each permutation ends up being grouped together naturally. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 16:15, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

I understand that. Could we make a flow chart and see how it looks so we have an example? Dagoth Ur's dialogue has a flowchart. I think flowcharts are used when there are options within the topic, below what the NPC says. Only some people, like major quest givers, have this type of dialogue. Personally, I think flowcharts are easier to read. – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 16:55, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

If you want to make a flowchart for his dialogue, why not make a sandbox and work there? I'm sure someone would eventually get around to helping you if you can't do it yourself (Maybe, since flowcharts are really complicated) ~ Ad intellige ^(talk) 17:23, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

Thank you for your suggestion, Dom. I already have over five sandboxes, so I won't be needing another sandbox made for a flowchart. I suppose we just put a flowchart at the end of Sandbox 8, then re-adjust it (if necessary) when launching the sandbox to Morrowind namespace. – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 17:34, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

(←) Adding a flowchart to Sandbox 8 seems like the ideal way to go, if you want to try one. I'd suggest copying from the Dagoth Ur article and adjusting it from there. While it may take some time to figure out the basic idea, once you do, you'll probably begin to appreciate why there's a lot of reluctance to use flowcharts. Even a minor change in positioning can require a lot of work. You should also note that there's a cleanup tag on the article asking that that section of the dialogue be better formatted (which I take to mean not using a flowchart). – Robin Hood ^(talk) 21:02, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

I'm guessing you wouldn't want a flowchart on Tienius' article when the sandbox is launched to gamespace? Because based on what you said about Dagoth Ur's dialogue flowchart, those are my immediate thoughts. I've tried doing it another way though — putting the dialogue options that were listed more than once at the last part where the dialogue ls. See the sandbox for a better understanding of what I'm saying, because seeing the change it is easier than explaining it in words. – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 21:21, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

I'd advise against a chart, because for dialogue it can get really long, and Dagoth Ur's is ineffective a far as space and formatting goes. Hell, I made a chart for fun, and it took me all afternoon that day to get it looking like that, and everything is off-centre, so it's not even "right". So, using a chart is potentially hours or days of work, depending on how elaborate it is, and when you're putting more than a line or two into each box, it starts to become inefficient, as far as effort needed to do it and space goes. -damon ^{talk ♥ contribs} 21:52, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

Exactly what Damon said. It's not up to any user to say "absolutely not", but I strongly believe that it won't work out well in the end. If you want to spend the time trying it, though, as you said at one point, it would be good experience and give you an idea of how hard charts are to manipulate. As far as what will actually work, I really don't know what else to suggest. What you've got in your sandbox now is clearer, but there's still some repetition. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 22:34, 25 January 2015 (GMT)

I guess you're right... I'm not going to do a flowchart. I'll just go with my "last repetitive line" idea. – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 00:07, 26 January 2015 (GMT)

Seeing as how the flowchart idea is too tough to accomplish, I won't be doing it. And one more question, RH: is explaining how to make a flowchart very complicated (i.e., explaining it step-by-step would take up pages and pages and might not make sense)? And regarding how I've got the repetitive dialogue with the my "last duplicate line player-responses" in the sandbox, some feedback would be very appreciated. And if anyone else has other ideas of presenting the dialogue apart from the "inline approach", I would be more than happy to consider them. Thanks. – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 10:06, 26 January 2015 (GMT)

The only thing I can offer in terms of making flowcharts is our documentation and Wikipedia's. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 15:07, 26 January 2015 (GMT)

(←) OK, but I don't really care about making a flowchart now. I was merely asking whether we could make one for Tienius' dialogue, but it seems too hard to do, so I give up. – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 18:23, 26 January 2015 (GMT)

Sorry, that was in response to your question of whether explaining how to make a chart was very complicated. I took that as a request for documentation. Was that not what you meant? – Robin Hood ^(talk) 18:48, 26 January 2015 (GMT)

Well, RH, I shall explain to you what I meant: I asked whether we could do a flowchart. You came along here after I asked you to and you said it would be complicated. My previous response of not caring about making one was after I thought to myself that I wouldn't go along with the idea in the end. My earlier question of whether it is complicated to explain them the my final thing I wanted to ask about them before ending the decision: to do a flowchart, or not to do a flowchart? Additionally, FYI (in case you wonder) , I never meant "I don't really care" to be said in bad etiquette; it was just me explaining that I had made my decision. Does this make sense now, RH? – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 20:31, 26 January 2015 (GMT)

Yes, thank you. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 20:32, 26 January 2015 (GMT)

I just hope you weren't offended at that "don't really care" comment. – Dragon Guard ^(talk) 20:45, 26 January 2015 (GMT)

undone necropostEdit

Hiya Legoless, I hope you don't mind my asking, why you felt that this post, coming on the bottom of a discussion that was last added too 18 months ago, and only offering their opinion without adding anything new to the either the talk page article, where they are just agreeing with the original poster or the place page article which already had details of this irregularity on it. The reason I ask is it's not an area I've done a lot on and don't want to be making mistakes, with this one I felt it failed to meet any of the recently discussed criteria for not reverting it and was more of a forum type post anyway as it was pure speculation and opinion. Thanks. Biffa (talk) 18:11, 1 February 2015 (GMT)

There's an ongoing discussion about necroposts here. As for that specific post, the IP who posted it was clarifying his edit to the article, which is exactly what talk pages are for. —Legoless (talk) 18:15, 1 February 2015 (GMT)

Yes but the same removal of the bug on the place page has previously been undone for the same reason I gave, which was why I did the same this time and thought I was on solid ground. I also posted an explanation on their talk page. I've been following the discussion regarding necroposts, but haven't joined in as I had nothing to add. Hence my comment above regarding adding nothing new to either the talk page or place page articles. Biffa (talk) 18:58, 1 February 2015 (GMT)

I'm not necessarily arguing for the removal of the bug. However the IP obviously feels otherwise, and is trying to rekindle that discussion to see it removed. —Legoless (talk) 19:03, 1 February 2015 (GMT)

IP VandalsEdit

Those two IPs that were giving us some grief caught my attention when they vandalized the same page in under a few minutes. I geolocated them here and here and it's the same location. Since they're probably together being intentionally ornery, do you think they need a temp block or something? •WoahBro^►talk 23:02, 1 February 2015 (GMT)

They've been given warnings. I say give them two more chances (one freebie to see the new message) before blocking. —Legoless (talk) 23:04, 1 February 2015 (GMT)

Go forth with the ESO fish?Edit

It seems like my sandbox project of organising the ESO rare fish in habitat types may get somewhere after Yvraine added a lot of rare fish habitats. Yvraine has even corrected a couple of wrong species names compared to the present UESP list of EXO rare fish I used as template for my sandbox list and corrected one misspelled fish species name too. I have still not gotten any answer to my question on Yvraine's talk page about the source, but those few rare fish I have gotten so far in the Dominion, Coldharbour and during a (so far only) brief visit to Craglorn seems only to confirm Yvrain's addition.

My aim is to organise all the rare fish by habitat type and rareness under each zone as soon as I have a complete list (or maybe even before if I find a good way of doing it). Should I wait for some kind of confirmation on the habitat types from Yvrain or others before I continue, or should I just go on without at any time I feel I get the inspiration (hopefully within a week or so) based on what is there now? —MortenOSlash (talk) 20:50, 3 February 2015 (GMT)

I say go for it, the info can always be fixed later. —Legoless (talk) 23:37, 3 February 2015 (GMT)

You are right. I will see what I can do of it. —MortenOSlash (talk) 06:08, 4 February 2015 (GMT)

Something like this? —MortenOSlash (talk) 06:42, 11 February 2015 (GMT)

If I may butt in and make a couple of suggestions: I think that layout looks great; it may be better to use the ;List Header format instead of =====Level 5 Headers===== to keep the number of section edit links and TOC entries down. Also, you can use the {{Item Link}} template to link to the ESO Item Database, which will mean you don't have to add (Blue) and (Green) to everything. For example: Eltheric Grouper, Desert Pupfish, Banded Killifish. It seems all the fish are listed in the Collectibles section of the database. --Enodoc (talk) 09:30, 11 February 2015 (GMT)

Sound like good suggestions to me. I'm glad to see it's coming along. —Legoless (talk) 17:17, 11 February 2015 (GMT)

Seems like a good ideas. I will go along with that one when I continue on the project. Tonight I think I will play a bit, so I am not sure it will be done tonight. —MortenOSlash (talk) 19:34, 11 February 2015 (GMT)

(←) How about this? —MortenOSlash (talk) 15:40, 28 February 2015 (GMT)

Looks great! —Legoless (talk) 18:16, 28 February 2015 (GMT)

Thanks! I will implement it then. —MortenOSlash (talk) 18:26, 28 February 2015 (GMT)

ESO lore itemsEdit

Hey, maybe you already know about the cool update to ESO soon - but there looks like there is going to be a number of lore-related unique items that can be stolen: http://elderscrolls.net/2015/02/18/12726-tes-online-unikalnye-predmety-kotorye-mozhno-ukrast/. Some really interesting item descriptions you might like, like the Ancient Dragonguard Burial Mask and Blood of St. Pelin. :D --Jimeee (talk) 15:53, 19 February 2015 (GMT)

Lots of very interesting stuff there. I'll get to work integrating the info asap. —Legoless (talk) 16:55, 19 February 2015 (GMT)

I was thinking about adding a few things, but didn't. Don't we usually wait until the update is out? --Jimeee (talk) 18:31, 19 February 2015 (GMT)

We have a rule on adding only limited pre-release information to lorespace, but if it's on the PTS then I imagine it doesn't apply as much. —Legoless (talk) 19:23, 19 February 2015 (GMT)

I need my guildmaster!Edit

Hi, Legoless one hour ago I accidentally put all my Gold in the Guildbank ... I realy like UEsP and our Guild ... but if it is ok I want my money back ... my Accountname is "@Hitomis-Freund" Bardiel (talk) 20:39, 26 February 2015 (GMT)

I can support Bardiel's story. About an hour and a half ago @Hitomis-Freund put 9764 gold into the Guild Bank, EU server. (Just in case the Guild Bank history log fills up with so many new events that this event is pushed of the list.) —MortenOSlash (talk) 20:55, 26 February 2015 (GMT)

I won't be able to get online till some time tomorrow. Maybe try to contact Enodoc. —Legoless (talk) 21:44, 26 February 2015 (GMT)

I tried to get the gold, but it's currently set that only the Guildmaster can withdraw gold from the bank. Sorry about that! We may want to look at changing those permissions (and possibly electing another officer some time as well). I can always lend you that amount in the meantime, if that would help. --Enodoc (talk) 22:50, 26 February 2015 (GMT)

I sent @Hitomis-Freund 9,764 from my character. When you next log in Lego, tweak the permissions for Savant and then I can recover the gold directly for myself some time whenever. --Enodoc (talk) 23:18, 26 February 2015 (GMT)

Just to close this off, I have recovered the gold from the guild bank, so now both I and Bardiel have what we started with. --Enodoc (talk) 17:54, 2 March 2015 (GMT)

How to handle ESO stolen itemsEdit

Given that there are waaaaay more items in ESO that can be stolen than I originally thought, I've been thinking about how we can incorporate the lore-relevant stuff into the pages.

I guess if we create an overview page in the ON mainspace in table format with all the items listed. This gives us an actual page to link to where readers can read the source, with a ref like "Stolen Item description in ESO" - instead of a vague reference like "Events of ESO". Of course not all 2000+ items have lore related descriptions, but many do.

Not sure how the wiki will handle 2000+ table rows, or if that even a usable format. I recall having a similar problem when listing many books, but I think that might have been a transclusion issue. Thoughts? --Jimeee (talk) 16:46, 27 February 2015 (GMT)

Wow, are they NPC-specific? Might be worth dividing the tables by zone if that's the case. —Legoless (talk) 16:51, 27 February 2015 (GMT)

No idea, but here is what this giant list looks like on the wiki! I believe these are separate from the "Legendary" stolen items we talked about last time. I'm guessing, as I don't know if these have a "name". I'd imagine have would have image. --Jimeee (talk) 17:16, 27 February 2015 (GMT)

Where did the data originally come from? I'm sure they'll have a name. —Legoless (talk) 17:23, 27 February 2015 (GMT)

A guy on the ESO subreddit did some data mining and extracted these (and some new books!). --Jimeee (talk) 17:28, 27 February 2015 (GMT)

Maybe someone who's played the PTS recently can clue us in as to the nature of the items. —Legoless (talk) 17:56, 27 February 2015 (GMT)

Edit belongs to a talk pageEdit

Hi Legoless! I am wondering about this edit. It either needs rewording or it has to be transferred to the talk page (if it's worth saving at all). What would you do about it? Thanks. ~ Shuryard (talk) 17:20, 27 February 2015 (GMT)

Seems like a one-off bug to me. Might be best on the talk page. —Legoless (talk) 17:23, 27 February 2015 (GMT)

Rufous MudcrabEdit

Regarding the note The Pet Rufous Mudcrab was seemingly intended to be a store purchase originally; seems like speculation to me, unless we have a source for it. You could theoretically apply that to any of the pets that already existed and later came out with merchandise, like the Pony Guar or the Scrib. --Enodoc (talk) 18:49, 18 March 2015 (GMT)

It was quite obvious from the mail that it came attached with. Compare it to the other Imperial Edition messages, and consider the fact that the only item ever actually released on the website store was a horse. We have a source saying that the palomino was intended as a cheaper option for those who didn't get the Imperial mount, so it's not a great leap to assume they had a knockoff crab pet in mind as well. Instead, they seemed content to simply continue offering the CE items indefinitely. —Legoless (talk) 18:54, 18 March 2015 (GMT)

Ah, fair dos, thanks. I wasn't aware of that mail message, and based on what it says I am definitely inclined to agree, as it's also basically the same as the Palomino Horse message. I went datamining for that message and found similar ones for the Banekin Vanity Pet, Housecat Cat Vanity Pet, Pony Guar Vanity Pet, Crony Scrib Vanity Pet, Argozog Vanity Pet, Retriever Dog Vanity Pet, Scamp Vanity Pet, Scuttler Vanity Pet, and Wolfhound Vanity Pet. It seems the mudcrab wouldn't have been alone, and there were 9 other pets that may have turned up in the store as well. Singling out the mudcrab now seems more redundant than speculatory. --Enodoc (talk) 19:26, 18 March 2015 (GMT)

Well, might be worth noting the others that have now actually appeared in-game. The mudcrab was notable since it could be deduced without datamining, while also explaining why it showed up unexplained in some people's inboxes on day one. There's not exactly a lot to say about the web store anymore anyway; I don't really see the harm in noting what "could have been" if we're gonna keep the page around. —Legoless (talk) 19:32, 18 March 2015 (GMT)

Interview with the ESO loremasterEdit

Hey Lego, just want to point your attention here. It's an interview with the ESO loremaster which has lots of interesting lore (for example, it confirms that Auridon ruins aren't Ayleid, and states that the Reach was not ruled by the Nords in the time of ESO, but by a Reachman despot). You should really listen to this. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 17:11, 27 March 2015 (GMT)

Shame they couldn't transcribe it. I'll give it a listen though. ^^ —Legoless (talk) 17:33, 27 March 2015 (GMT)

Fishystick from a Gentleman MudcrabEdit

You have been given a Fishy Stick!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a Fishy Stick because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

Thank you for letting me know about how you actually do this. Since you contributed to my page and have your rank in the court of gentleman Mudcrabs I feel it is necessary to give you a stick of fishies (M'aiq reference) let the bananas burn!!! FOR SKYRIM!!! As always - Dave the nord (talk) 20:28, 3 April 2015 (GMT)

Haha, thank you. —Legoless (talk) 20:29, 3 April 2015 (GMT)

A pleasure, Duke Banana burner --Dave the nord (talk) 20:46, 3 April 2015 (GMT)

Dark Seducer ImageEdit

Hey Legoless! Thanks for catching that! I was so concentrated on fixing stuff, I didn't even realize the image was incorrect... Somewhat related question: aren't Dark Seducers and Golden Saints NPCs, not creatures? ~Shuryard (talk) 14:21, 5 April 2015 (GMT)

That image can probably still be used here once it's re-uploaded as a jpg, since we don't have any female costume images yet. As for your question, there was some discussion on this before between myself and Jeancey, but I don't remember a conclusion being reached. In truth, there's no real distinction between NPCs and creatures in ESO, but Golden Saints definitely use the same model and attacks as player characters and other humanoids. The pages themselves are currently split between creature=1 and creature=0. —Legoless (talk) 14:46, 5 April 2015 (GMT)

So, in general, if there is no consensus on certain topic, how do I proceed? I am asking because I've raised a couple of questions which haven't been resolved so far and I feel a bit suspended in the air. Do I just continue to do what I think is best in each case? Do I leave it alone until the question surfaces again? Or do I continue nagging people? :) ~Shuryard (talk) 19:35, 5 April 2015 (GMT)

If it's blocking your progress and no one seems too interested, just go ahead. Only reason you'd want to keep nagging is if people are outright opposed to a proposal. Especially as far as ESO goes, more is better - standardization can come later. —Legoless (talk) 19:38, 5 April 2015 (GMT)

Phew! Thank you :) ~Shuryard (talk) 19:44, 5 April 2015 (GMT)

(←) Hate to butt in here chaps but I'm not really certain what's going on with this image I uploaded? One moment I'm uploading it and the next there appears to be several people moving it and changing it. Also the image was removed from the page I created which was where it was originally intended to go when I uploaded it in the first place? Just wanted to know what's going on. Yours as Crabbily as ever --Dave the nord (talk) 19:50, 5 April 2015 (GMT)

The Dark Seducer image you uploaded isn't a Dark Seducer, it's a person wearing a Dark Seducer costume. It's been moved to the relevant page. On top of that, it was also renamed, and has been marked for eventual replacement since it doesn't meet our image guidelines. —Legoless (talk) 19:56, 5 April 2015 (GMT)

I see…….I'm really bad at this….. well thanks for taking care of it. Much appreciated --Dave the nord (talk) 19:59, 5 April 2015 (GMT)

If you want to try your hand at re-uploading it, try using this image as a guide. Usually photos of NPCs should be perfectly square, but those costume images all seem to be a funny shape. —Legoless (talk) 20:08, 5 April 2015 (GMT)

Thanks. I might just lay low for a while till I actually know what to do. Gentleman Mudcrab armies don't feed themselves caviar (it would probably slip through their pincers). Yours Crabbily --Dave the nord (talk) 20:12, 5 April 2015 (GMT)

Edit of my user subpageEdit

Hey! I actually indicate on my To-Do list that people can edit it if they have completed the item on the list. However, you were still correct in removing it as Dave the nord didn't follow any of the instructions on the page, and uploaded the icon instead of an in-game screenshot of the item by itself on a table. Jeancey (talk) 15:28, 6 April 2015 (GMT)

Ah, I wasn't able to find an 'ok to edit' banner or anything at first glance. I figured you'd still want to have a look yourself, since it didn't match image standards. —Legoless (talk) 15:32, 6 April 2015 (GMT)

EbonarmEdit

Can we remove the references to Ebonarm from the Daedric Princes lore pages? He is the enemy of every single Daedric Prince, so we don't need to put it on there. We should only mention specific rivalries. We wouldn't mention on every Stormcloak page that they are the enemy of the Empire, after all. All we need is a reference on Ebonarm's page stating that he is against all the Daedric Princes, and perhaps a mention on the overarching Daedric Princes page. Jeancey (talk) 17:18, 6 April 2015 (GMT)

The more info the better, especially since there's an exception to the rule with Sheogorath. Of course, those rivalries are just Daggerfall faction mechanics in the first place, and relatively few have actually carried over into lore. While I hate to see Ebonarm de-canonized any more than he already has been, I'm indifferent towards mentioning him on the Prince pages or not. —Legoless (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2015 (GMT)

I'm on IRC now if you still want to chat about this. Jeancey (talk) 23:48, 8 April 2015 (GMT)

That was actually to do with your ESO edit to the Ebonarm lore page - pretty big stuff! Do you happen to have the line of dialogue that references him? —Legoless (talk) 23:52, 8 April 2015 (GMT)

I know :P I quoted the full thing in the forum thread about ebonarm (in the lore section). There are two lines of dialogue and an item. Jeancey (talk) 23:57, 8 April 2015 (GMT)

I'm filled with a sort of annoyed glee over this. It's confusing. Awesome, with a dash of wtf, I guess. The Germans probably have a word for it. I love seeing him included in some fashion, but now I'm befuddled by their treatment of From the Memory Stone? Has any of this new stuff been confirmed in the game, or is it only data mined at this point? Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 01:05, 9 April 2015 (GMT)

I saw the blessing at one point in Sentinel, which is when I searched the files for it. I don't think the item is in the game yet, and I have no idea about the other line. From the way it is set up, multiple people should have the chance to say it. Jeancey (talk) 01:11, 9 April 2015 (GMT)

Lore Archive DiscussionEdit

Sure man, I'll weigh in on it, no problem :). --IceFireWarden (talk) 17:37, 4 May 2015 (GMT)

Thanks :)Edit

Thank you for taking care of that! For some reason, I got into some kind of stupor with .jpeg format, existing image and trying not to scare a new user away :$ You, however, handled it perfectly. ~Shuryard (talk) 20:13, 7 May 2015 (GMT)

My pleasure! For future reference, images with .jpg, .jpeg, .JPG and .JPEG file extensions are all supported by the wiki and are interchangeable. —Legoless (talk) 20:16, 7 May 2015 (GMT)

That is good to know! Just to clarify, if an image is named correctly, but the extensions isn't .jpg, say ON-place-Sentinel.JPG, should we move it to the consistent ON-place-Sentinel.jpg? ~Shuryard (talk) 20:24, 7 May 2015 (GMT)

No harm in changing them, although I've been known to be guilty of it on occasion. —Legoless (talk) 20:26, 7 May 2015 (GMT)

Haha :) Thanks, I'll keep it in mind. ~Shuryard (talk) 20:34, 7 May 2015 (GMT)

Warp in the WestEdit

Should the book be moved to the disambig page? Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 13:40, 10 May 2015 (GMT)

Good idea, no reason not to. I've deleted the disambig. —Legoless (talk) 13:43, 10 May 2015 (GMT)

Can you also merge the two talk pages, or shall we just delete the book talk page? Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 14:22, 10 May 2015 (GMT)

Done. —Legoless (talk) 14:25, 10 May 2015 (GMT)

Artisa Arelas dialogueEdit

Is this part of Arelas' dialogue? It's not "unique" dialogue because Savants apparently say it, but I don't like citing to class dialogue if I can help it, and I just want to make sure I'm reading CSList correctly. Great work lately, by the way. Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 01:15, 12 May 2015 (GMT)

Thanks! Yep, Artisa Arelas definitely says that. —Legoless (talk) 01:47, 12 May 2015 (GMT)

Faction in NPC TemplateEdit

I'm about to fix the faction template, but I want to make sure that the way I'm fixing it is, in fact, what you intended. I intend to make it so that the faction is stripped of it's link before being turned into a category. Are you intending the category to be Category:Online-Factions-Ra Gada or Category:Online-Factions-Ra Gada (Malabal Tor)? In a related note, I seem to recall this broken template thing happening with another of your edits, but I can't remember which one or which faction it was. Do you remember? Jeancey (talk) 17:12, 14 May 2015 (GMT)

I think it happened to this page before, but for some reason creatures aren't even being added to the categories at the moment. I think Category:Online-Factions-Ra Gada (Malabal Tor) would be best - no sense categorising two different factions together, after all. —Legoless (talk) 17:15, 14 May 2015 (GMT)

Yeah, I have no idea about the creatures thing, it baffles me. I've been meaning to take a look at it for that anyway. We can already do it without changing the template for Ra Gada (Malabal Tor) by just removing the link. It will display Ra Gada (Malabal Tor) in the faction part though. Jeancey (talk) 17:25, 14 May 2015 (GMT)

One thing we're gonna have to deal with is figuring out the generic Ra Gada NPCs. There are the Redguards seen in Alik'r, the Redguards seen in Malabal Tor, and the Imperials seen in Crimson Cove, and for all we know they might share the same generic names. —Legoless (talk) 18:01, 14 May 2015 (GMT)

In terms of the faction in the summary we still have the {{faction}} template. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 18:05, 14 May 2015 (GMT)

I can do it. There's no need for the Faction template (which raises all sorts of other issues). I'm just looking for a more elegant way. I seem to recall a template or magic word or some sort that will strip the ending off the page just like the pipe does, but I just can't remember it. I'll do the inelegant way for now, and RH or someone can make it better later. Jeancey (talk) 18:17, 14 May 2015 (GMT)

I found the elegant way I was thinking of. It works fine now. I'll start on the Creature not displaying a faction thing UPDATE: I fixed the creature thing. It was exactly as simple as I expected it to be. Jeancey (talk) 18:29, 14 May 2015 (GMT)

Oblivion HousesEdit

In case you missed it, the entire scope of the OBHRP is to add individual house pages for all houses in Oblivion. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 22:51, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Happy Birthday!Edit

Have a sweetroll! ~Shuryard (talk) 23:00, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Wow, it snuck up on me. Thanks! —Legoless (talk) 23:03, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Happy birthday! :) Holomay (talk) 07:22, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Happy birthday Legoless! I hope you had a great birthday! Lorenut (talk) 11:02, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Happy belated! Zul do onikaan^{Laan tinvaak} 11:15, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

And happy birthday from me too :P --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 12:03, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Happy birthday! – Robin Hood ^(talk) 15:37, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks guys! —Legoless (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Happy (Belated?) Birthday!! (with timezone changes, I'm not entirely sure if your birthday is the 26th or 27th). Happy birthday regardless! Jeancey (talk) 22:33, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

27th, and thanks! :D —Legoless (talk) 02:17, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

PlagiarismEdit

Hello and welcome to UESPWiki! Thanks for your interest in improving the wiki. Plagiarizing content, including images, and placing it on UESPWiki is unacceptable, and any plagiarized content will always be removed upon detection. If you are the same user who posted the original content elsewhere, please identify yourself accordingly before attempting to add the content again. UESPWiki encourages you to take your time and produce your own, non-plagiarized content for use on the site, and your help in doing so is appreciated. You may also want to look over our style guide and Getting Started guide. Feel free to ask if you have any questions. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 23:04, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for restoringEdit

Sorry I deleted the Online Provinces and Regions talk page. I wasn't really sure what to do with it and I'd forgotten that we had a category for pages like that that are kept deliberately. My bad—I'll try to remember that for the next time. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 23:54, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I was actually gonna ask you what should be done in future with pages like those. Do we have a written policy on those sort of talk pages? Might be a good idea to draft one if we don't. —Legoless (talk) 23:56, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Not only do we not have a policy that I can find, even Wikipedia is a bit lacking. The closest they get to a policy, at least that I can find, is this, with two templates giving additional hints. It basically amounts to "administrators should use their judgement as to whether to keep or delete a page". My personal feeling is that if the talk page contains significant discussion as to why a page was deleted, then we should probably keep it. Similarly, if a talk page could in some way benefit the wiki, we should keep it even if the article itself is deleted. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 02:01, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

I was initially under the impression that all talk pages are kept, similar to blanked user talk pages. Case-by-case seems like an okay way to go though. —Legoless (talk) 02:07, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

I think that makes sense. Since it's not really a big issue, I'll just go ahead and add something to our Deletion Policy so that we'll have it available for future reference. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 02:27, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

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