Lore talk:People M

M'aiq the LiarEdit

Made the part on M'aiq more coherent and read more encyclopedia like, and removed the line "although i kinda like him" or however it went, and clarified some things on his location in Oblivion. — Unsigned comment by Katiriji (talk • contribs) at 12:31 on 21 June 2006‎ (GMT)

No way does M'Aiq the Liar belong here. Somebody has better make a really good case for him. I'm talking Cochrane and Cicero material here. Temple-Zero 12:34, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Easter egg, Fourth Wall, references to the speed attribute of players... all this breaks the style guide to no purpose. Typically, I forgot to log in, but consider this my 'Proposed Deletion' prod. Temple-Zero 00:46, 8 August 2008 (EDT)Temple-Zero

Marukh the SeerEdit

Isn't there grounds for an expansion, and a separate page for Marukh the Seer? Him and his teachings, followers and Alessian Doctrines deserve more exploration, it seems. There are several mentions in books, there's a Marukh's Day in Daggerfall, and perhaps most important, the Alessian Order and the Maruhkati Selective, with the whole Dragon Break thingie ;) If there's someone that wants to write it, TZ perhaps, otherwise I'll see if I can assemble a initial page. --Benould^•T•C 13:35, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

Marukh is a must, though it's a topic I can't do justice off the top if my head.Temple-Zero 14:36, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

Obviously wrong information concerning Mynisera's deathEdit

I've read the the Daggerfall manual as well, but since the game starts at the 4^th of Mornig Star in the year 405 3A and she is still alive, this must be an abrasive mistake made by the developers.In addition, there are quite some other mistakes and false informations in the manual. Regarding this fact I would propose to leave the year of her death open.--PLRDLF 10:41, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Good point. Serves me right for trusting out-of-game sources :p –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:55, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

M'aiqEdit

When I typed M'aiq in in the search bar, it immidiately redirected me to this page. I was looking for the actual article on M'aiq but it wasn't there. What happened? If the search was programmed to redirect here then why wasn't the article on M'aiq ever added? --M'aiq the Liar ^Talk 20:44, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

He used to be included here. If the search directs here, then good catch.Temple-Zero 21:25, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

The redirects have been put up for deletion. --Nephele^Talk 00:16, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

(←) The article used to be included here? He's a major character in two Elder Scrolls games, why is he not here anymore? --M'aiq the Liar ^Talk 21:51, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

He's not major, I'm afraid. He may be popular but apart from an optional introduction to Boethiah's quest in Morrowind he isn't relevant to either game and certainly doesn't warrant inclusion in the Lore space. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:15, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

With the redirects deleted, a search for "M'aiq" will now show you both the Morrowind and Oblivion articles in the results. For this reason, the Tamriel/Lore redirects should not be recreated, as they will cause the search to automatically go there instead. That is, unless we put him back on this page - I'm still not 100% sure that M'aiq doesn't deserve mention here - he is a character that appears in multiple games, and pretty unique in that respect. (The appearing-in-multiple-games criterion is used for other Lore pages, such as Lore:Artifacts, etc. However, if he is mentioned here, it should be extremely brief, just stating something like:

• A Khajiit encountered in both Morrowind and Oblivion.

No picture or anything, the links to the two gamespace pages should be enough. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 16:47, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

MishaxhiEdit

Shouldn't the akaviri commander Mishaxhi be on the People_M as well? As he is the commander of the akaviri forces that faught Reman, I'd say he's very important. The oblivion article on him has almost no lore information what so ever, and he is depicted as an imperial in-game, which make it even worse.Jyggorath 20:28, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I see no reason why he shouldn't be added. If you decide to add him, be sure to also create a redirect [[Lore:Mishaxhi]] to his section in this article. -- kertaw48 14:47, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I would very much like to, but I'm not able to figure out how to make a new section on the page. All I can do is edit the sections already present.Jyggorath 13:08, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Here you go. I just hope you fill your end of the bargain now. ;P -- kertaw48 14:10, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

MiramorEdit

Any evidence this person even exists out of the 2920 series? Otherwise, there's a good chance he's entirely fictitious and we probably shouldn't have a section for him. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 05:47, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

He probably exists, but is so insignificant that I'm not even sure why he was added. We don't need a lore article about every minor historical person. -- kertaw48 09:20, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

His assassination of Prince Juilek played a major role in the fall of the Reman Dynasty, and the ending of the Second Empire. That seems fairly significant to me. --Xyzzy 14:05, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Mathieu BellamontEdit

I believe we should include a segment, and possibly even a page, about Mathieu Bellamont. He was a peripheral figure in the Dark Brotherhood questline in Oblivion, and was the unknown antagonist which defined the questline. Plus, Cicero has his own segment, and in my opinion, Bellamont is more important to the Dark Brotherhood's history than Cicero. -- Kharwog — Unsigned comment by Kharwog (talk • contribs) at 19:11 on 10 July 2013 (GMT)

I don't believe "peripheral" is the word you were looking for, but I wouldn't be opposed to including Bellamont. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 20:25, 10 July 2013 (GMT)

Mohi-TitonaEdit

I insist that the entry I included on Mohi-Titona stay where it is and not be deleted. Really, just because only one (not exactly sane) person has mentioned her doesn't mean she's fictional. And if she still doesn't qualify, I think she ought to be listed somewhere. Is there an article for characters that are fictional in-universe where she could be listed instead? Bauglir100 (talk) 00:31, 19 February 2015 (GMT)

I've amended the entry to make it more appropriate for lorespace. We can't know for sure if she's a real figure or not, but we know so little of Akavir that it's probably worth noting regardless. —Legoless (talk) 00:41, 19 February 2015 (GMT)

I just feel it's ridiculous to include a character here that 'exists' solely in a single throwaway line from an NPC that is completely unimportant and is directly said to be delusional. The supposed title doesn't even make sense; Akavir is a divided continent among the various races there, so there can't be a 'Queen of Akavir', that'd be like saying 'Queen of Europe' or something. At the very most, this would be acceptable as a note on the Akavir page, but to even have a full entry on this page implies that there is a real person to be listed. I searched through every line of dialogue from Redguard to ESO and every book ever included in TES, and there's not a single other mention of Mohi-Titona or the title 'Queen/King of Akavir'. -- Hargrimm^(T) 01:52, 19 February 2015 (GMT)

Assuming that Akavir is divided is based entirely on the book Mysterious Akavir, which is purposefully ridiculous in its descriptions and can hardly be used to discount an equally-ridiculous line of dialogue. "Fictional" characters have been included on this list before, and some (Zuuk) eventually turned out not to be so fictional after all. Additionally, we shouldn't be assuming Mohi-Titona isn't real just because it's been muttered by a madman; Julianos is certainly real, and significant swaths of lorespace already depend on the ravings of the insane. What differentiates this Queen of Akavir from other throw-aways like Tosh-Raka and Sidri-Ashak (the latter of which was recently expanded upon)? I like the current minimalistic entry as it stands. —Legoless (talk) 02:09, 19 February 2015 (GMT)

LekiEdit

No, Makela Leki isn't only mentioned in ESO sources - she was first mentioned in Daggerfall.

Its true that the image caption from the Daggerfall book is "Saint of the Spirit Sword", however the context of the original physical book is needed to understand why this isn't the Yokudan God Leki.

The dev who wrote much of the old Redguard lore (known only as Ryder Bloc or Dave) originally wrote "Redguards, Their History and Their Heroes" as text that examines 4 major mortal Redguard/Yokudan heroes. Instead of it being complied into one large text, it was broken down in to smaller texts called:

• Notes For Redguard History (Hallin)
• Divad the Singer (Divad)
• The Memory Stone of Makela Leki (Makela)
• Redguards, History and Heroes (Frandar)

Despite being broken down, the texts and the images were still focused on the four mentioned mortal redguard heroes, and not the gods. We didn't get images of Hallin or Divad howerer - the physical "Heroes" book had only 2 images, Frandar and Makela. And yes, it might be confusing that the caption reads "Leki, Saint of the Spirit Sword" (which is also how the Yokudan god is titled), but once you understand "Saint of the Spirit Sword" is another word for "Ansei" (which Makela undoubetedly was) it becomes clearer.

In addition, the god Leki first appeared around the time of Redguard (PGE1:H - "By far the most popular gods in Hammerfell are Tall Papa, and his children: Hunding, Leki and Ansei") - after Makela and Daggerfall. Saying this image is Leki the god implies that in a book about four mortal Redguard heroes, they added an image of a Yokudan god that didn't even exist in the lore yet.

I'll revert this again. Please discuss on the talk page if you want to take this further. --Jimeee (talk) 08:50, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

The image in question comes from Redguard, not Daggerfall, so the god Leki did exist in the lore by then. I can't see any mention of Makela Leki or Leki in the Daggerfall text of Redguards, Their History and Their Heroes, so I'm not sure what context you're coming from. To me, "Makela" seems like an important distinction to make, and it isn't made here. —Legoless (talk) 14:50, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, the pics are indeed from Redguard. But we know only Makela was mentioned in DF and "Leki, Saint of the Spirit Sword" is mentioned in the RG pic.

To clarify where I am coming from, the details of the original four heroes document was extracted from the Daggerfall Preview CD. See here for more details: https://www.imperial-library.info/content/compilation-redguard-history

In DF it was split into 4 separate texts (as above). When the Frandar centric book made it into RG, it was shortened significantly and the images added. The other 3 books were not in RG. Given that we know the book's DF origins, its unquestionably Makela Leki that is depicted. Of course, we are not including other cut-content, but the distinction is much clearer. An NB note on the relevant pages is probably needed. --Jimeee (talk) 16:14, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Initially I thought that the picture depicted the goddess Leki, because it had the same title as the book Varieties of Faith..., but after Jimeee provided the context I also believe it's supposed to depict Makela, as the god would not make sense to suddenly appear in the texts centered on Redguard heroes (of whom Makela was one). --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 16:31, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Sorry about the uninformed revert, Jimeee. Instead of searching the wiki, I looked at the references and noticed they were only from ESO. We should probably have another reference to the Daggerfall book somewhere. I wanted to change my edit summary right after Legoless pointed out the book on Discord, but I still thought this image was the goddess because of the caption. However, you've definitely done the research and now I need to fix several links in Redguard space pointing to the goddess. —Dillonn241 (talk) 02:42, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

That's fine - Old lore pages like this sometimes need to be double-checked and looked at in context, as the original ref was inaccurate or wrong. This particular one went noticed for years.--Jimeee (talk) 10:56, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

This needs to be re evaluated. You claim that “this has already been explained” but as far as I can tell your sole justification for claiming that two beings who are both named Leki, both given the title “saint of the spirit sword” which is a title unique to them, both female yokudan figures heavily associated with the ansei is that you believe that the title is another term for “ansei” but Leki the god is heavily associated with ansei herself so that was a shaky argument from the jump. I’d like to hear more people’s opinions on if the info of the two should be merged/consolidated. Imo it should. Dcking20 (talk 16:32, 13 August 2020

As the person who 'merged' them, I pretty much thought what Dcking has said above. On top of this, the pages themselves are tiny on their own, also https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Redguard_History names that picture as just Leki, so that at the very least should be kept on the Lore:Leki page. — Unsigned comment by Imperialbattlespire (talk • contribs) at 21:29 on 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Provisional datesEdit

Another set of dates of known activity for people previously listed as (?b - ?d), as per this discussion. Some notes:

• Maelmoth the Mysterious: I concluded this was the most likely meaning of "contemporary of Shalidor".
• Count Marius Caro: This is based on his article - is he actually stated to still be alive as of The Infernal City?

I was going to include a note on Mohi-Titona but I see that's already been discussed. More letters to follow.--Draugluin (talk) 10:47, 3 January 2024 (UTC)