User talk:TheRealLurlock

ScribingEdit

Hi. Great work on the scribing pages. I've been adding and editing little bits there as I explore it (already done on EU, doing on NA). Do you happen to know whether the dungeon etc. coffers give a chance for all types of scripts? (I've had Affix scripts so far, but unsure whether any others). Also, one tiny grammar note (apologies for any pedantry): In a sentence with 'one thing' and 'another thing', no comma should appear after the "and"; in a list of three things -- 'one thing', 'another thing', and 'a third thing', commas can come after each 'thing' (though the second is a question of style rather than grammar). I also saw you added the item templates for the Sigils and I've started using those. If you have a moment, could you figure out what the template ought to be for ink? Many thanks Gegensmith (talk) 17:07, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Can't say for sure whether it's all of them, I was following your lead on that one. I had theories that some might be PvP-only, but given that all of them seem to list both PvP and PvE sources, I don't believe that is the case. I've only been getting them from the guild quests, but I don't generally do PvP. Here's a Luminous Ink link. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 17:13, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Great, thanks. I'll try to record my drops and amend it later. Gegensmith (talk) 17:45, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Another question: I'm adding the prices for scripts. I'm using ESO Price template for the gold icon. I can't find one for ON:Archival Fortunes. Do you know if there is one, or where I would request its creation? Many thanks Gegensmith (talk) 18:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Template:ESO_AF — TheRealLurlock (talk) 18:07, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Great, thank you very much. Gegensmith (talk) 18:21, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello again. Yes, the table for the cost of scripts looks much better. I wonder, if you have the time, could you please take a look at my attempt to create a page listing the rotating stock of the script vendors? I modelled it on the luxury furnishings vendor lists, but couldn't make everything work. Specifically, I can't work out how to get the date to appear in the final column -- I'm attempting to use a local date template, but can't see why they are invisible.

With regard to ink drop rates: I know from my experience on the EU server that the .5% isn't correct. Of course, there's no accounting for RNG... but, in my experience: far higher drop rate from nodes than enemies; higher for enchanting nodes, followed by alchemy nodes, then blacksmithing; higher in West Weald than other zones. I have loot log running which posts to chat whenever i get one or two but haven't collected data. But, from brief notes from one attempt to record: x2 @11:23am, x2 @ 11:24, x1 @ 11:27, x2 @ 11:48, etc. I'll put together a note for the article about CP perks increasing the rate too.

Many thanks, Gegensmith (talk) 21:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Ugh, I'm not sure how that #localdate thing works. My template-fu is a bit rusty, and that's one of those more advanced features I never used. I'd just put it in as text, though of course then you're dealing with US vs. EU ordering on MM/DD/YYYY vs DD/MM/YYYY. I'd personally opt for UTC YYYY/MM/DD, that way they sort in proper chronological order no matter where you are. Of course, since the date is the same for each batch, maybe don't put it in its own column but in a header above each set of items? All I can say is I don't want to be responsible for keeping that thing up to date. It was bad enough with the luxury furnisher, where they only change once a month. It might be better to just say "Here's a list of all the things he could sell", along with prices, etc. but put a note saying that he'll only sell a limited subset of those items which varies from week to week. That's easier for Farandil than for Ool, of course, because Ool has a much wider pool of items to choose from. I'm just not sure it's worth the effort trying to keep up with an ever-changing stock like that.

Regarding ink drop - I heard that figure from several people online, and my own testing on NA seemed to back it up, but I wasn't being very scientific about it. I also heard that ZOS is considering increasing the rate due to many complaints. I hadn't heard that they were available outside the West Weald at all. I think this requires more rigorous testing. Isn't there an addon that tracks this across multiple users over long periods? One developed by our own Daveh in fact? I know there used to be at least... — TheRealLurlock (talk) 22:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice -- I've added the dates manually but retained individual dates, since the sort columns would mess up the grouped dates. Yes, it will be a bit of a pain at first to keep updated. But I'm assuming the stock will remain static -- at least for a good while (new grimoires, I expect, but not so sure about new scripts). I am also assuming that the stock between the two of them will come in 'bundles' (same ones always sold together), in which case I might make some templates (individual price scripts, then bundles grouping) so that only one template need be added each time. I used to edit wikipedia a great deal (featured articles on there, etc.) but that was a while ago, so my template abilities are a little limited -- ideally they'd have a toggle to show gold or IA currency, depending on the vendor -- but i'd need to do some more research before i can do that. I'll have a look for the add on you mentioned -- would be worth trying to pin down the figures. Someone in chat in a twitch stream confirmed ink dropping from PD bosses, so I added that. Gegensmith (talk) 14:56, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Chiming in to heap additional praise on you, Lurlock. Great work getting all this info on the wiki so quickly. --Xyzzy ^Talk 10:15, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello again. I see the addition of possible DLC zone delve quests. Sure, it won't hurt to confirm each, but there's no real reason to think they don't... I do think we need to have a list for ALL the sources for each script, since we don't want to create the impression that the delve is the only one to do -- we get three of each type guaranteed -- one from each type (delve, mage guild, reward of worthy, for focus). Is that what you meant by the up to three?

Also, it isn't a three max -- it's a three guaranteed; 25% chance after that (though one may hit the x50 repeatable limit at the extreme; but that's quests, not coffers)

Unless you're getting the three max from some other source? Gegensmith (talk) 17:13, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Well, you can only do 1 Mages Guild quest per character per day, so that's already limited. It did seem like 3 was guaranteed for just delves, but I was unable to find any more after 3 from those. I did all 15 of them in one day and still only got 3 from the first 3 I did. It seems this limit only applies to the delves, as I got 4 including the Mages Guild. No idea on the PvP quests, I don't do those unless I have to. There is of course a hard limit, because I don't think you'll find any more scripts once you have them all? Not sure. I did not remove the other sources, I just broke the list out for the delve quests (doing the same for WB and incursions). It's a lot harder to test the WB and Incursion quests, as you need other people to help with those, and there's often just not enough people playing in the older DLC zones. As far as confirmation, I don't like to put information up there that is just a guess without clearly indicating this. It's entirely possible that they forgot to include some of these quest givers when adding the scripts to their drops, so I want to make sure that we mark things as unconfirmed until we know for sure. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 17:22, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Well, firstly, remember that the drops come from opening a coffer, not from doing a quest. It is possible to accumulate coffers for each character and NOT open them. Mage's Guild quests, also, can be shared, so you can do more than one per day per character (I believe; maybe i'm thinking of Fighter's). I suspect that you just had really good rng from your delve coffers if you got three drops from delves in one day. It's only the first of each type that's guaranteed; 25% after that. I've been watching twitch streamers test this all last week. So, you can get a max of nine guaranteed drops per account per day -- one from each source. Beyond that, it's 25% chance from all nine sources. One tip, maybe for the page, maybe not: like you, I'm not fond of PVP. It's easy, though, to collect the six district IC quests off-peak time (easier on EU than NA); same for the Cyrodiil town quests. For the IC, prob want to keep the quest active and hand-in once per day (for the siege of cyrodiil merit, or whatever it's called). For the cyrodiil town quests, they can all be handed in and the coffers remain unopened. It's harder to accumulate rewards of the worthy (25,000AP per reward), but again it's possible to accumulate the coffers in one go and keep them unopened. As far as confirming the DLC zones -- the tooltip of the Sigils goes some way towards that -- it lists the three sources. But, again, no harm in awaiting confirmation. Gegensmith (talk) 17:48, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

It was 2 days in a row, I did the same thing, all 15 delve quests. The first 3 gave scripts both times, the remaining 12 did not. I think that's highly unlikely to be a coincidence. I have not done the same with WB and incursion quests due to the difficulties of getting enough people in older zones, and I don't touch the PvP stuff (especially IC), so I don't know. I play exclusively on NA, so it might be different than EU. I suppose I could try the IC thing on the PTS, but that's a lot of time to waste on stuff you don't get to keep. I've otherwise found it to be a thoroughly unpleasant place at the best of times, unless you can get a large crew together. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 20:03, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok, that's interesting. I'll give it a try on my account today and get back to you. I have learnt that the rnd does seem to guarantee a script and scrap per CHARACTER, but am going to test that further today. BTW, I hope it's ok with you, but I thought I'd copy this convo to the talk page of scribing and continue there, just so others can reference easily. Please let me know if not and I'll undo it. Gegensmith (talk) 20:37, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

ESO NPCsEdit

I saw that you changed a lot of ESO NPC images to move them to the creature category. These were correct before. Just letting you know in case you were planning to review more images. —⁠Legoless (talk) 20:00, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

How are we defining this? It's not as clear-cut as it was in previous games. Are skeletons and ghosts not considered creatures? I would say that the NPC and creature images categories are nearly unusable as they currently stands. I think any category that has tens of thousands of things in it needs to be subdivided into smaller categories. Maybe divide them by race/gender, or location, maybe occupation (e.g. vendors in one category, quest NPCs in another, enemies in another, justice neutral in another, etc.) No reason we can't do all of the above. It's just pretty impossible to find anything in that giant pile. Even with the alphabetical links on the top, it can still take dozens of "Next" button clicks to find something you're looking for. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 20:46, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

It's nothing to do with image categorisation really, it's how we categorise all mobs that use the standard NPC rigging: skeletons, goblins, mummies, and many others besides. The image categories can of course be improved, but as-is they reflect a defined split. —⁠Legoless (talk) 20:55, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

That seems a bit arbitrary, and also a deeply technical distinction that most people would not be able to determine. There are plenty of bipedal enemies that don't use the same rigging, and nobody who doesn't work for ZOS could tell the difference without hacking the files somehow. Dividing by race would solve this of course, though I think there are some NPCs whose race is ambiguous. (You see a white human - are they Breton, Nord, or Imperial? Often the name is the only clue and sometimes even that doesn't help.) I just think making the distinction by something as low-level technical as rigging is very problematic. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 21:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

It's neither arbitrary nor technical, as it can easily be observed through in-game mechanics. See, for example: Shadowsilk Gem, Tidal Wave Incarnate, Grisly Mummy Wrap, Zombie (personality), or the numerous skeletons wearing player-equippable styles. As I said, no objection to improving image categorisation, but this is how we've been splitting NPC/creatures for ESO. Compare it to Dremora in Oblivion, which are considered NPCs despite being non-playable enemies. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

The existence of player-usable personalities, etc. is irrelevant. There's a polymorph that makes you look like Molag Bal - Does that mean Molag Bal should be included in NPCs instead of creatures? There's multiple ways in the game where you get turned into a monkey or other very-much non-humanoid creature. The truth is that the distinction now is so blurry it's essentially meaningless. It's only the fact that they were more objectively distinct in previous games that we kept them separate in the first place... — TheRealLurlock (talk) 22:29, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

The Molag Bal polymorph is different from the enemy mob, so no, that doesn't make Bal an NPC. You are right that the split is a legacy of the older namespaces, but we've adapted it to suit ESO's mechanics. —⁠Legoless (talk) 08:06, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Loot table you just madeEdit

I love it! Thanks for doing that. Solomon1972 (talk) 15:35, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Just wait, about to add something else... — TheRealLurlock (talk) 15:44, 13 October 2024 (UTC)