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User talk:Rpeh/Arc 200707

< User talk:Rpeh

Hi there. Let me introduce myself. I'm me: who are you?

Hi, me. I suppose that makes me "you." I just wanted to thank you for the NPC images. You're doing a great job. Somercy 15:22, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks. Just giving a little something back. I doubt I'd ever have finished the game if it wasn't for this site! Rpeh 06:37, 1 June 2007 (EDT)
Gee, I wouldn't know about that...Somercy 10:40, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

ImagesEdit

Great work on all those images you are making of those NPC's (and quests). Especially that you take care to have decent lighting and no interface cluttering them. I've been working on a series of images as well, and I think at this speed every NPC soon will have been immortalised. :-) --Timenn 13:48, 2 June 2007 (EDT)

I've got the hang of it now. My first few still had the menus on them. Now I usually give 'em a quick polish in PaintShop Pro before I upload 'em. After the NPCs, the houses!!! :-) Rpeh 14:06, 2 June 2007 (EDT)
You could also use the console command tm (toggle menus) ingame, does wonders for me. And tai (toggle AI, freezes them), while having a NPC selected, is great for NPC's that just won't stand still. --Timenn 14:13, 2 June 2007 (EDT)
I've been using tm to get rid of the menus - I meant I was polishing after that. Didn't know about tai though. That would have made my life so much easier! Rpeh 14:58, 2 June 2007 (EDT)
Timenn, you might want to add the tai tip to Help:Images#Tips. And if there are any other tricks either of you are using, add those too :) Thanks to both of you for all the great screenshots you've been adding! --NepheleTalk 15:25, 2 June 2007 (EDT)

SpellingEdit

FYI, I just wanted to point out the page Spelling so that you don't spend too much time fixing typos that this US-centric site doesn't consider to be typos (traveling, rumor, armor, Mages Guild, etc.) :) --NepheleTalk 10:30, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

Ah. Sorry about that. I didn't realise that page was there. I was also stymied by the fact that of the pages I'd seen, most seemed to have been spelled with the British spellings (armour, rumour etc), which is why I changed those while I was changing other typos. Ditto with Mages/Fighters/Thieves vs Mages'/Fighters'/Thieves'. I'll use the versions on the spelling page now I know it's there. But seriously guys... you spell "travelling" as "traveling"??? :-) Rpeh 12:52, 5 June 2007 (EDT)
We're lazy and we don't like to put the extra 'l' in there. --Ratwar 12:58, 5 June 2007 (EDT)
I say, old boy! That's just not cricket! Rpeh 13:04, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

New userboxEdit

Thought you might be interested in the new {{User Artist}} userbox I just created. You seem to be doing a good job with images, so it'd be nice to get a few other graphics-knowledgeable people to join the little club. There's no real obligations, just add the template to your User page, and anybody who has problems with images will know who to ask for help. Up to you of course, just thought I'd let you know. --TheRealLurlock Talk 14:59, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

Oblivion PlacesEdit

Thanks for signing up to help with the Oblivion Places Redesign Project :) Unfortunately the project is still basically stuck in limbo somewhere between being proposed and actually being active. My schedule has been pretty busy lately, and I keep obsessively tweaking the format of the maps and data dumps. I'm hopeful that in the next couple days I'll be able to get a few things finalized and post a bunch of new information.

Given your experience with screenshots, any help you could provide with creating some of the new maps would be particularly useful... although it's really up to you what you would like to work on! If you're really eager to get started, you could possibly start collecting and assembling some maps. Some of the places I'll be adding soon include Fort Chalman, Fort Dirich, Fort Facian, Kemen, Niryastare... There are 30-40 new places in all that I'm about to add. Also, if you'd like to explore some places not on my list, feel free to do so and I can generate the info any places you'd like (including even Shivering Isles places pretty soon, probably within the next two weeks).

Let me know if you have any questions/requests/whatever! --NepheleTalk 13:57, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

I should be able to do those for you. I should be able to get those done this weekend and I'll start on some of the others after that. That's just grabbing the screens - I don't know how you go about getting the overlay info. One question: Do the maps have to be taken at 1024x768? That resolution and and Oblivion really don't mix too well on my monitor. I can do it if need be, though. --RpehTalk 14:23, 21 June 2007 (EDT)
I'll supply the overlays... I can either post them on the site or email them directly to you. The only reason for specifying 1024x768 is that I know that the overlays are scaled to match screenshots taken at that resolution. But if another resolution works better for you, go ahead and use it. It's very possible that at your higher resolution the whole task will be a lot easier, i.e., if it requires fewer screenshots to cover the whole map. We can then check whether the overlays are still scaled properly; if not, it's trivial to get the pngs to generate at a different resolution, and I'll just supply you with whatever resolution you need. --NepheleTalk 16:02, 21 June 2007 (EDT)
Okay, I've done those five. Please could you email them to me? Send them to rob at robherbert.com rather than the address I use here as it's easier for me to get them onto my main PC. I took them at 1024x768 after all rather than mess about scaling. I'll probably do some more over the next couple of days. I'll list the ones I've done on the Oblivion Places Redesign Project page. --RpehTalk 04:08, 23 June 2007 (EDT)

Hey Rpeh, I'd love to get started helping document places (or inns or houses, for your other projects). If you'd like to get in touch with me regarding what you need from contributors, I can be reached at kementari(at)gmail(dot)com. I'm not talented with manipulation of art assets, but I take a mean screenshot, and I can definitely assist with legwork and written documentation. --Kementari 15:18, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

Hi there! I'll post my reply on your (as yet non-existent) talk page so you get an automatic email and we can keep it in one place. --RpehTalk 16:19, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

How about adding a column for the map key on the OPRP Progress page? The page was an excellent idea, by the way! --Eshe 16:25, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

Good grief, that was fast! I've previously considered the map key as part of uploading the maps, but since you're been putting it on yourself, you're probably right. I won't do it yet though as I'd like to get feedback from everybody before making changes (look at the page source - you'll see why!). --RpehTalk 16:28, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

Looking for something "wiki lite" to work on and hone my wiki skills.Edit

I'm looking for something I can really help with that doesn't require a lot of knowledge and familiarity with wiki formatting, which I'm still in the process of learning. If you're aware of any particular parts of the OPRP of anything else that might fall into that category, I would appreciate your suggestions. Giamgiam 17:54, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

Hi Giamgiam. The best way to start helping is to look around and see if any pages need improving. You'd be surprised how many spelling mistakes get through! Spend a bit of time looking at how existing pages work and you'll be churning out pages with the best of 'em before you know it! This is a good place to get some ideas of things to do. With the OPRP, keep looking at the project page and (if we decide to use it) [[UESPWiki:Oblivion_Places_Redesign_Project/Progress|the progress page]]. Feel free to nick any of the ideas on my user page too. The key thing to remember is: enjoy yourself. Unless you start vandalizing the site, blanking pages and generally wreaking havoc, nobody is going to tell you off if you change a few things. The worst that will happen is it will get reverted. So go for it! I hope you enjoy your time on the wiki. --RpehTalk 03:24, 3 July 2007 (EDT)
Looks like you found your own project. Excellent work! --RpehTalk 00:40, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

RevertingEdit

Just a small request (I know I'm going crazy with this minor/not minor edit thing lately) - when you revert spam or vandalism, this should not be marked as a minor edit. When these things occur, it helps out the administrators to see it prominently in the Recent Changes so we can deal with it. If you state that you're reverting in the edit summary (as you've been doing), it makes such things stand out much better, and draws our attention to the problem. Thanks. --TheRealLurlock Talk 11:53, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

I was copying you guys! The first couple of times I did a revert (before becoming a patroller) I didn't mark them as minor, but the ones I saw from both you and Nephele were always marked as such so I followed suit. This and this are recent ones from Nephele and your good self respectively. With hindsight I suppose the admins need a heads up in case blocking is required, but it might be an idea to add something to the Patrollers' page saying that this is a case of "Do what we say, not what we do"! Oh and yes, a little bit crazy but in a good way. You now have everybody agonizing as to whether or not their change is major :-) --RpehTalk 12:28, 4 July 2007 (EDT)
OK, you've actually uncovered a semi-bug here. Both the edits that you pointed to are ones that were reverted using the "rollback" button that admins have. I never realized that the rollback feature automatically tagged the edit as minor, and it's just a click-once-and-done feature; there's never any option to alter whether or not the edit is tagged as minor. And I'm pretty sure that setting is one that can only be changed at Daveh's level. So.... should we not use the rollback feature? Or only use the rollback feature when it really is minor? Or just settle for do-as-we-say-not-as-we-do? :) --NepheleTalk 13:57, 4 July 2007 (EDT)
I knew it - you've been setting me a bad example ;-) Speaking personally, I'm happy just to not click the checkbox but if I was doing it to follow in the footsteps of my betters, others are going to do so too. Whilst we're on the subject, is there a better format I should use for the revert message? Again, I've been copying what I've seen elsewhere. --RpehTalk 14:22, 4 July 2007 (EDT)
I don't think it matters that much - if an Admin reverts a vandalism/spam edit, then they already know about it, so it's taken care of, and thus doesn't matter that it's marked minor. If somebody else sees it, all they can do is revert, and an Admin might still need to take a look at it, so thus it shouldn't be marked minor. As for the summary, the default one on the rollback feature is a little bit cumbersome - you shouldn't feel the need to copy it verbatim. Just so long as you clearly indicate that it's vandalism/spam in the edit summary, somebody should notice it and take additional action if necessary. --TheRealLurlock Talk 14:47, 4 July 2007 (EDT)
I get that point, but my new concern is that I raised your ire by following, what I thought, was best practice on the site. I've been able to monitor the recent changes quite closely recently (my boss and my boss' boss have both told me that I can't do anything unless the phone rings. Don't ask.) so I've been reverting quite a bit. I'll accept it could just have been me being... obsessed with ISO or something, but I did what I did because I'd seen it done. Others might do the same. I really don't want to make a big thing here. I'm sorry I did the wrong thing and won't do so again but there are children watching and they copy what the see :) --RpehTalk 14:58, 4 July 2007 (EDT)
It's not a big deal or anything (no ire involved here), just thought I'd let you know for the future since you've been doing it alot lately. (Much appreciated, by the way. Any help we can get in dealing with spammers is always welcome.) --TheRealLurlock Talk 16:30, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

Quest IconsEdit

I was just clicking around aimlessly looking for something to do when I came across your project list. If you're still looking for somebody to do your quest icon thing, I'd be up for it. I'd just need the images and a quick explanation of what you want done, and away I'll go! --Eshe 02:59, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

Take a look here. I've grabbed all(?) the quest icons and the project was going to be about adding them to the pages. However, I've just realised it's another template question. The quest header template will need modifying to add, say, an icon parameter. You should be able to see the icons here, assuming I've not uploaded a bunch of other images since. Still interested? --RpehTalk 06:13, 8 July 2007 (EDT)
Sure, why not! I'll check out the template, but I'll probably ask more questions before I actually change anything because I don't want to mess it up. Now, in some cases it's obvious which icon goes to which quest, but what about the two "general" oblivion icons? Do you know which ones those go to? --Eshe 12:51, 8 July 2007 (EDT)
That's the irritating part. The minor quests (Zero Visibility, Go Fish and A Venerable Vintage for instance) use one or the other and the only way to find out is to go through the quests and make a list. I haven't got round to that yet. The tricky thing with the template is that it's got to work when there isn't an icon too so everything doesn't break while the icons are being added. I took one look at some of the other templates and did a runner, hence no action on this particular project. --RpehTalk 13:42, 8 July 2007 (EDT)
Well, I could get started on checking the quests. I don't think I've found all the quests yet in my game, so it might take longer than I would like, but oh well. The template is terrifying, but I think with enough tinkering I might get it. I'll start messing with the template to see what I can do, and then I'll start making a list of which quests get which icon. --Eshe 18:01, 8 July 2007 (EDT)
If you look at a Quest entry in the list of Quests with the Construction Set, you can see on the Quest Data page a quest icon and its filename. Might that be what you are looking for? --Timenn 18:47, 8 July 2007 (EDT)
Could be. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble running the Construction Set. I'm not running the PC version of the game, and although the installer told me the Construction Set would mostly work even without the game installed, I haven't been able to get it to work. I'm already almost done making a list of the quests I have. If the icons listed in the CS are what we need, I'll let somebody else make a list of the quests I have not activated; otherwise, I'll have to go through and find the quests I don't already have. Thanks! --Eshe 19:05, 8 July 2007 (EDT)
I hadn't thought of that! Good plan, Timenn. I'll try to grab a list for you this evening, Eshe. --RpehTalk 03:17, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

Okay, TheRealLurlock decided to become my hero and did the template bit for me. Except for the quests I haven't started in my game file, I should be all set. --Eshe 23:34, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

Looking good! But there goes the Recent Changes page again :) --RpehTalk 00:37, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

Hello again! The icons are just about done, except for a few I have a question about and the Oblivion quests I haven't encountered yet. In the Shivering Isles main quest, all the quests had their own icons except for these five: Baiting the Trap, Addiction, Ritual of Accession, Ritual of Dementia, and The Prince of Madness. Am I to assume these use the "general" icon? --Eshe 14:59, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

That's odd - some of those sound like they should have their own icons. I'll take a look tonight and see if I can work out which it should be. --RpehTalk
Okay, here are the missing ones:
  • Baiting the Trap - SI-qico-BetterMousetrap.png
  • Addiction - SI-qico-UnderstandingMadness.png
  • Ritual of Accession - SI-qico-RitualOfMania.png
  • Ritual of Dementia - SI-qico-RitualOfMania.png
  • Prince of Madness - SI-qico-General1.png
I'll let you put 'em on since you've done all the others! --RpehTalk 00:39, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

ThanksEdit

Hey Rpeh, thanks for putting those class images on the Unmarked Places page- they look great!--Willyhead 14:51, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

My pleasure. I just added (very rough) map links too. I have to confess they were largely done through trial and error so may not be as accurate as some of the others. That 'Dark Grove' was a good find. The others are fairly obvious, but I'd never seen that one before! --RpehTalk 14:56, 14 July 2007 (EDT)
Oh yes i stumbled across it once while i was exploring- gave me the creeps! Thanks for the map links too.--Willyhead 15:01, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

Image deletionEdit

Just a few procedural notes here - when nominating images for deletion because there is a better image to replace it, you should always provide a link to that image in the reasons for deletion so that the deleting admin can compare the two. Also, Speedy Deletion is not appropriate in these cases, as that is generally reserved for pages created for the purpose of spam or vandalism, or pages created by mistake or meant as temporary working pages. Proposed Deletion should be used instead for this. --TheRealLurlock Talk 11:33, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

That's not what the policy says. Among the criteria is the line "Redundant images that have another copy that is of the same or better copy and of the same image file format." The only files I've added to speedydeletion are ones that are no longer used anywhere precisely because somebody has uploaded a better version in the same format! --RpehTalk 11:39, 15 July 2007 (EDT)
I think that policy is meant to apply in cases where an image was of inferior quality, but was then brought into Photoshop or something and cleaned up or adjusted - not so much when it's an entirely new image. I agree it could stand to be clarified a bit. In any case, it still helps if you link to the new image so that we don't have to go searching to see if it really is better or not. Not that I don't trust your judgement, but it would be irresponsible for an admin to just take your word for it and delete the old images without first comparing them, especially since image deletions are permanent. Unlike page deletions, they cannot be undone. (It might even help to develop a system whereby the community could vote on which image it preferred in cases where it isn't especially obvious, but that may be a later project.) --TheRealLurlock Talk 13:12, 15 July 2007 (EDT)
Having a link to the image that's being replaced does help to confirm that the image qualifies for speedy deletion. Looking through this set, three were actually identical to the "replacement" image, so I went ahead and deleted those. In the other cases, my first impression is that the images also qualify for speedy deletion, because the quality of the replacement image is clearly better (better lighting, no detect life, less clutter, etc) and doesn't have any disadvantages compared to the original. On the other hand, I'm a bit biased because I took the replacement screenshots ;) If there is any uncertainty, though, it's safest to change them to proposed deletions. Speedy deletion should be for cases where there's no chance of making a mistake; proposed deletions are supposed to still be uncontroversial and straightforward, but it just allows a bit of time in case something has been overlooked. --NepheleTalk 14:27, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

TillEdit

Hi RPEH,

Just noticed you corrected someone's "till" to "until". Just FYI, "till" is a perfectly valid word, meaning the same as "until". According to Collins English Dictionary (which is UK-based, so you can't blame it on us North Americans <g>), "Language note: Till is a variant of until that is acceptable at all levels of language. Until is, however, often preferred at the beginning of a sentence in formal writing...." — Unsigned comment by RobinHood70 (talkcontribs)

While it is true that both forms of the word are acceptable, "until" is nevertheless preferred, particularly in writing. The site doesn't entirely conform to what is typically considered formal writing, but "until" still sounds better. There was nothing wrong with making this change. In fact, had I caught it, I would have done it myself ;). --Eshe 18:58, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
I agree, there was nothing wrong with the change, but many people think "till" is a colloquialism, when it's not. And as the language note said, it's considered acceptable at all levels, including formal writing, except perhaps when it begins a sentence. (Oh, and I'll remember to sign this one this time! I'm forever forgetting that.) --Robin Hood 20:51, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
You live and learn. I thought it was a contraction, which is not the sort of word you want on a semi-formal site such as this. IIRC, it was only part of a larger edit, right? Or am I getting so anal in my advanced years? --RpehTalk 00:41, 18 July 2007 (EDT)
Both, actually. :) It was part of a larger edit, but if I recall correctly, it was only a few other words that were changed. That's okay, though, I'm at least as anal. Oh, and just to confuse the issue further, 'til is a contraction of until, but till stands on its own. English is wonderful, ain't it?

Extremely small thing...Edit

I've noticed that a lot of times when you respond to a section on a talk page, you change the link thing in the summary, e.g.:

/* Reorganizing Tamriel Books - reply */

The proper way to do this would be

/* Reorganizing Tamriel Books */ - reply 

The reason to keep changes outside the /* */ tags is that on Special:Recentchanges or the page's history, when you click on the little → symbol, it goes right to the section, and putting your change on the inside of the tags breaks that feature. Just thought I'd let you know for the future. --TheRealLurlock Talk 08:09, 29 July 2007 (EDT)

Well I never knew that! As they say: You learn something new every day. --RpehTalk 08:25, 29 July 2007 (EDT)
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