Skyrim talk:Civil War

Is It Safe?Edit

If you are a member of the Imperial Army, when you enter stormcloak cities such as riften, will you be attacked or looked upon any differently by guards or townsfolk? — Unsigned comment by 90.216.187.71 (talk) at 19:36 on 11 October 2012‎

Generally, this isn't an issue to worry about. If you're an Imperial Legion soldier and you linger too long in a Stormcloak military camp, they'll become hostile, but in general you won't have issues in cities which are controlled by the other side. — ABCface^◥ 23:03, 11 October 2012 (GMT)

Guards on either side'll get a bit angry if you talk to them wearing the enemy's uniform, but only soldiers and some others like Captain Aldis will outright attack you, and even then, only if you choose an unwise dialogue option. Vicano (talk) 10:14, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

NeutralEdit

shouldn't it be noted somewhere that you don't need to choose at all? (though I admit you are somewhat defaulted to imperial anyways in season unending) 108.92.176.211 07:17, 7 November 2012 (GMT)

That would essentially be saying that you have the option not to do the quests, which is redundant as there is no requirement to do any quests in Skyrim beyond Unbound. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 15:29, 7 November 2012 (GMT)

When Treated as Hostile?Edit

The third paragraph of the "Choosing Sides" section in the article talks about wearing the other side's armor and possibly being accused of being a spy, then "Another implication ...." Implication of what? Implication of becoming a member, or of wearing this or that armor? --JR (talk) 19:19, 22 November 2012 (GMT)

Order of battlesEdit

So I'm trying to draw up a flow-chart for each side of the war. What I've got so far is this:

Joining the Legion The Jagged Crown Message to Whiterun Battle for Whiterun A False Front Reunification of Skyrim The Battle for Fort Dunstad Compelling Tribute The Battle for Fort Greenwall Rescue from Fort Kastav The Battle for Fort Snowhawk The Battle for Fort Sungard The Battle for Fort Neugrad The Battle for Fort Amol Battle for Windhelm

Joining the Stormcloaks The Jagged Crown Message to Whiterun Battle for Whiterun Liberation of Skyrim Rescue from Fort Neugrad Compelling Tribute The Battle for Fort Sungard A False Front The Battle for Fort Snowhawk The Battle for Fort Dunstad The Battle for Fort Kastav The Battle for Fort Greenwall The Battle for Fort Hraggstad Battle for Solitude

The heavy outlines mark where you get achievements. What I'm not sure about is the order of the optional battles on the Imperial side - Fort Sungard and Fort Neugrad. (I'm pretty sure Fort Snowhawk is right, but it's hard to tell.) Anyhow, what do people think? TheRealLurlock (talk) 03:56, 24 January 2013 (GMT)

I think that is correct. What is interesting to ponder is whether The Battle for Fort Greenwall (Stormcloaks) and The Battle for Fort Sungard (Imperial) qualify you for the War Hero achievement. Has anyone tested this? I could use a dummy account on my XBox to do it, but it would sort of take a while to advance a character to that point even bulldozing your way through the storyline. If they do, there are implications on several pages, especially Season Unending. --Morrolan (talk) 19:34, 16 March 2013 (GMT)

There is no quest called "The Battle for Fort Neugrad". The Stormcloak side has 15 quests, the Imperial side only has 14 (IIRC). Could someone get rid of it? I'd do it myself but I don't know how without making a big mess of the chart. 174.57.22.244 10:21, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

I got that from the Reunification of Skyrim page. Are we sure there's no such quest? There's no page for it on the wiki, certainly, but do we know for certain that there is no way to ever have to do this quest? Some combination of choices in Season Unending that will put Falkreath in Stormcloak hands when you side with the Imperials? Need to test it before we go messing with the chart again. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 13:14, 6 April 2013 (GMT)

The IP is wrong. I did that quest this morning. It's the battle for Falkreath. Also, both sides have exactly the same number of quests, unless modified by Season Unending. --Morrolan (talk) 19:58, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

Err, I did Rescue from Neugrad this morning actually. Still the IP is wrong. Battle for Fort Neugrad is the Imperial quest to retake Falkreath if you have given Falkreath to the Stormcloaks in Season Unending. --Morrolan (talk) 20:02, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

That's what I would assume as well. Weird though that there isn't a page for it yet. Has ANYone managed to get this quest? I feel like we should make a page for it if it's at all possible to get it. I just wonder if maybe there's no combination of things you can do in Season Unending to give Falkreath to the Stormcloaks when you're on the Imperial side? It's such a complicated quest with so many different possible outcomes it'd be difficult to test this. I don't have a character anywhere near where they'd need to be to do it. Both of mine have already completed both the Main Quest and the Civil War (one on each side). The other thing that's going to be even harder to test is the order of the 3 optional battles on the Imperial side. It's quite possible I've gotten it wrong, but it's so difficult to test. (You'd have to screw up really badly to give the Stormcloaks all three of those provinces, which I don't think is even possible.) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 02:17, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

As far as I can tell, at most you can transfer two holds (not provinces, heh, Skyrim itself is one province) to one side in Season Unending. After you decide on Elenwen, you transfer The Reach/The Rift to the side that doesn't have Whiterun, then the side that has Whiterun wants The Reach/The Rift or you can give one of the lesser holds, then you get some RP questions, then at the end the side you pissed off more (usually the other side) kinda pleads for another one of the minor holds and if you feel sorry for them (or you have Hearthfire installed and you want to build the house on that hold and get a housecarl without having to do the regular thane prerequisite quest) you give it to them. So: to recap, in order to give away Falkreath to the Stormcloaks, you have to piss Ulfric off, and then hope he randomly asks for it, and not Hjaalmarch. The odds of Falkreath being randomly selected may go down even further if you've already captured The Pale for the Legion. (I don't know - can Season Unending transfer back holds that you've already captured?) --Morrolan (talk) 02:50, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

Found this too: Skyrim talk:Fort Neugrad#Battle for Fort Neugrad --Morrolan (talk) 03:19, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

Well, okay, maybe you can't get all three, but you can get A+B, A+C, or B+C, and we'd still need to know the order of each pair to make the chart correct. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 03:45, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

Pros & cons of joining sides to go here perhaps?Edit

We get a lot of questions about which side you should join etc. in various discussion pages. If there could be a neutral laying out of the three options (Legion, Stormcloaks, neither) and how those choices affect gameplay, this might be a good spot to put it. What does everyone else think? --Morrolan (talk) 02:40, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

Can you think of any examples? Having played through both sides, it's really hard to say if one side or the other has any advantages. It's basically the same number of quests (depending on Season Unending), the quests themselves are basically the same, if in a slightly different order. Even the rewards for the quests are pretty much the same (leveled gold and enchanted armor/weapons mainly). There's some things that are different (like what happens to Heimskr after the Battle for Whiterun), but that's not really a pro or con, unless you consider not having to listen to him yelling all the time a "pro". The guards that patrol the cities are different depending on which side you choose, but that's pretty much irrelevant. There are some things specific to certain quests that are different - you can't complete The Forsworn Conspiracy and No One Escapes Cidhna Mine if you side with the Stormcloaks and gain control of Markarth. Not sure if there's any such conflict with the Imperials. A few people will like you more or less depending on your allegiance, but it doesn't prevent you from doing any quests that I know of. There certainly isn't anything as obvious as the differences between the two sides in Dawnguard, for example. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 03:40, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

The biggest difference in terms of gameplay is unaligned vs. choosing a side. Staying unaligned gives you a number of advantages, chiefly the ability to sleep in all the camps plus sell things to all the quartermasters, whereas if you choose a side eventually when your side wins all of the camps will be hostile to you. Choosing a side does give you access to the quest rewards, of which the only unique reward that you can't get by any other means is Hjerim (the Stormcloak questline also gives the otherwise fairly rare Stormcloak officer armor, but that can also be gained via the Imperial questline by looting Stormcloak generals' bodies at the Battle for Whiterun and also via one of the Dark Brotherhood Forever radiant targets; the Beautiful Barbarian wears it). Also, choosing a side allows you to skip the thane prerequisite quests for conquered holds (except for Riften and Solitude, and conquering Riften does allow you to buy Honeyside), although staying unaligned also allows you to do that for holds switched with Season Unending (again with the exception of Riften, with the same caveat that it does allow you to buy Honeyside if you install Maven as jarl). And finally, if you stay unaligned, you have to complete Season Unending to complete the main quest.

In terms of the differences between the two sides I was thinking of perhaps listing off the different jarls and giving descriptions of their personalities, and perhaps giving a short discussion of the Thane prerequisite quests that completing the civil war or Season Unending allow you to skip.

There is a quest conflict with Maven being jarl and one of the Thieves Guild quests. Also you can complete No One Escapes Cidhna Mine if The Reach is Stormcloak, although I'm not sure if the Forsworn Conspiracy will activate if The Reach is already Stormcloak the first time you enter Markarth (the only way that can happen is if you transfer it to Ulfric via Season Unending). There are weird bugs that trigger if you're doing both Compelling Tribute (Stormcloak) and Forsworn Conspiracy at the same time. --Morrolan (talk) 14:00, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

You can definitely buy Hjerim as an Imperial supporter - you just have to wait until after the Battle for Windhelm. I'm not sure if a similar restriction exists for Proudspire Manor if you join the Stormcloaks. As far as purchasing property or getting thaneships, there is a general restriction that you can't do either if the Jarl of the Hold is of the opposite faction, but this applies equally to both sides, so not really a pro/con. Stormcloak officer armor is - big deal. It's not really that great and wearing it as an Imperial will just piss people off. Definitely there's advantages to not choosing either side, but that's different from the original suggestion, as there's no particular advantage from choosing one side over the other side. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 12:20, 16 April 2013 (GMT)

I know that about Hjerim. You can't get Hjerim if you stay unaligned, that's all I was saying.

There is no side restriction on Proudspire Manor and becoming a thane of Haafingar, it doesn't matter; you just have to follow the Haafingar questline (clear out Wolfskull Cave, go to the shrine of Talos, then help five people if you want to be a thane). You can be Imperial, Stormcloak or unaligned.

You can purchase property or get thaneship from an opposing side jarl, there's no restriction there; it's just that if you install a jarl who isn't the original jarl, you get to skip the prerequisite quest for thaneship and purchasing property (except in The Rift, where you must still do the prerequisite quest for thaneship, although Maven allows you to buy Honeyside, and in Whiterun, where in order to install Vignar as jarl you have to have already completed Bleak Falls Barrow (the prerequisite quest for purchasing property) and Dragon Rising (which first makes you thane of Whiterun)). You can do this either via the civil war or via Season Unending. And yes, if you use Season Unending to install an opposite-side jarl (say Brina if you're a Stormcloak or Thongvor if you're an Imperial) that jarl you installed will still allow you to purchase property and skip the thane quest prerequisite.

The original suggestion is at the top of this thread. It was for a neutral laying out of the three options (Legion, Stormcloaks, neither) and how those choices affect gameplay. I never once suggested just doing a comparison of Legion vs. Stormcloak. --Morrolan (talk) 14:26, 16 April 2013 (GMT)

I don't know about pros and cons, but I came to the page to see which quests could be broken or unavailable by picking a side in the war and possibly advancing the civil war quest lines. I've read on other pages about a quest possibly being bugged or unavailable if you start these quests. Someone mentioned here that there is a conflict with Maven being Jarl and a thieves guild quest. I also saw mention of something to do with Forsworn Conspiracy and Cidhna Mine. I think it would be useful to put in the notes section that some quests become unavailable or broken once you advance through the civil war line. Even better if it listed the specific quests. I haven't completed the thieves guild line on this play-through and was concerned about breaking it by starting the civil war line. --Ignotus (talk) 02:14, 17 April 2013 (GMT)

Moved NoteEdit

"All of the Civil War missions that involve taking a fort can also be completed by going to the capital of the hold and besting the local Jarl in combat. You will not gain a bounty from doing this."

From personal experience, this cannot happen. I've attacked Jarls while doing CW quests in their hold that match this description, but have not had this happen. Furthermore, if this was possible, it would of been found by now and not almost two years after the fact. I am just going to go out on a limb here and say this was a mod that was forgotten about by the user who added it. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 23:59, 8 August 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, I'm with AKB on this one, this isn't possible at all. Maybe a third-party mod added it? Jeancey (talk) 00:11, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

I agree with AKB as well, I never have heard of anything like this and someone would have found out about this by now. Looking at the quest pages for the various fort battles, the only thing I see that could suggest this is the quest stage 110: "Force <Alias=Jarl>'s surrender". I have no knowledge regarding the Skyrim Creation Kit though, so this quest stage probably serves some other purpose rather than involving this defeat the Jarl in combat thing. Forfeit (talk) 00:47, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

I added the note, I was on my iPhone. It wasn't a mod, I'm certain of that. The only mods I have that are relevant to the CW are my own. I've done this with Skald the Elder before in the attack on Fort Dunstad. It seems you can only do it at a specific stage, I think you can only do it after reporting to Galmar/Rikke, or meeting the men at the fort, although I may be wrong, but it can be done.

I'm not sure why it hasn't worked for you, but I'm sure I've seen more people mention doing this, sometimes as a work-around when the quest got buggy and the enemy garrison at the fort wouldn't spawn or whatever. Vicano (talk) 10:05, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

A quick Google doesn't turn up any other mentions of this method. I haven't tried it. Did you enter the city and challenge the jarl via a conversation option, or just start whaling away at him? --Morrolan (talk) 13:11, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

Just started icing him. Think I might have done the same in The Rift with Laila, but I can't remember. Vicano (talk) 15:00, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

Someone who's playing an Imperial (I assume that's your side since you mention The Rift and The Pale) should test this on vanilla Skyrim. It's possible also for mods to have unforeseen effects, you mention that you are playing with mods you wrote yourself that affect the civil war. It may be that there was meant to be a duel capacity that got written out, but which your mods have re-enabled. --Morrolan (talk) 15:09, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

(←) I've played both but Imperial is my preferred side, yeah. I don't remember trying it on any of the western 5 Jarls in Stormcloak saves. Vicano (talk) 15:54, 9 August 2013 (GMT)

I've tried this, with the Unofficial Patch, but without any other mods that could possibly influence it (only SkyUI and Green Water Fix). First off, it did work: Playing on the Imperial side, I completed both The Battle for Fort Greenwall and The Battle for Fort Sungard by beating the Jarl (Laila and Thongvor, respectively); as soon as each was on their knees, the "Take over Fort..." objective was completed and my bounty was cleared (which is notable because normally, your bounty is only cleared when you report back to Tullius).

However, on the save where I used this method on Thongvor, later on I experienced the bug where Rikke doesn't give you the next mission, and none of the usual fixes worked. After loading an older save and completing the quests normally, the bug didn't appear.

So, in short, the method definitely works, but it appears to be bugged, so it may not be advisable to do it. --185.39.64.134 15:32, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Seconding this observation. I play unmodded on PC. I discovered the "skip the fort attacks" shortcut after, on a whim, assassinating Skald the Elder, to see if I could hasten Imperial reunification of Skyrim by getting rid of disloyal jarls. It seemed to work; after smashing Skald down to a crouching position, the game completed "Regain the Pale" and auto-completed the Fort Dunstad quest. But I soon ran into the Rikke bug; she refused to give me the "attack Fort Greenwall" quest, and absolutely nothing fixed it, including console commands. When I reloaded an old save and fulfilled the "Attack Fort Dunstad" quest instead of assassinating Skald, Rikke and the CW questline proceeded normally.

My theory is that because several of the "attack this fort" quests share the quest ID "CWFortSiegeFort", missing one of them bugs future quests that tabulate it as a prerequisite. When I manually entered the console command "SetStage CWFortSiegeFort 10" to try to activate the Greenwall fort quest, Rikke sent me to the (theoretically completed) Dunstad instead. Once there, the "kill 100% of soldiers" goals never appeared, Dunstad couldn't be cleared/completed, and finishing the CWFortSiegeFort sequence by means of console commands gave me a gold reward, but didn't update Rikke or Tullius's dialog and options. The "SetStage CWFortSiegeFort 10" console command also became unresponsive; I couldn't use it a second time to activate Greenwall, and attempts to console-command my way to the next Imperial quest kept running into the Rikke bug as well.

So, yeah, even if the game seems to at first acknowledge and reward an out-of-the-box assassination strategy, DON'T DO IT. It just leads to a hopelessly bugged mess a quest or two down the road. --98.166.137.142 07:01, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

War HeroEdit

I did a playthrough on Imperial where I traded Riften for Markarth, and I can confirm that The Battle for Fort Sungard (Imperial) gives you the War Hero achievement. It seems to me like this it's hard to miss this achievement because there are only a few possibilities:

1. Avoid Season Unending at all by ending the civil war first. You'll conquer either Riften or Markarth and get the achievement.
2. Do Season Unending after joining your preferred side. The opposite side will demand either Riften or Markarth, so no matter what you give them, you have to take that city back, and you'll get the achievement.
3. Do Season Unending before Jagged Crown, trade Riften for Markarth, and then switch sides (or join Stormcloaks if you were unaffiliated). You still have to conquer either Riften or Markarth, so you'll get the achievement.
4. Do Season Unending before Jagged Crown, trade Riften or Markarth for a minor city, and then switch to or join the side that got a major city. That side will have both Riften and Markarth, and that's the only way to skip both of the quests that can give you War Hero.
5. Have a bug that prevents you from proceeding through the Civil War far enough to get this achievement. (I had this happen with one of the bugs in The Jagged Crown (Stormcloaks).)

Quantheory (talk) 04:47, 2 December 2013 (GMT)

PropheciesEdit

There are at least 2 prophecies which refers Stormcloaks Rebellion aka (1st) Skyrim Civil War at 4th Era : Prophecy of the Dragonborn and Tyranny of the Sun. The former needs a civil war after a series of unlikely yet disastrous events for dragons to return to Skyrim. The latter needs a civil war in Skyrim and dragons' return. Should I put that on note section? — Unsigned comment by 202.80.212.31 (talk) at 15:26 on 12 November 2023 (UTC)