Lore talk:Khajiit/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Lore talk:Khajiit discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Cool Picture

I was wondering if we could add this image to the article. It's from the imperial library. I'm not sure if it's copyrighted, but it does look cool. It seems to be concept art of a arena or daggerfall khajiit. 67.142.130.37 22:16, 4 March 2007 (EST)

I just get an error on that page. You might want to chech that link? --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 23:37, 4 March 2007 (EST)

Odd,try http://www.imperial-library.info/races/khajiit.shtml it's the one on the right. 67.142.130.37 23:52, 4 March 2007 (EST)

I suspect that like most images on TIL's website, they got that from some official Bethesda source. You might poke around on their official site and see if you can find the same images there. If you do, then feel free to use it, as it falls under Fair Use at that point. If, however, it was created by the people at TIL, then it belongs to them, and it would be wrong to use it here. I doubt that's the case, as very little on TIL is original to their site, but it's best to be careful about this sort of thing. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 23:58, 4 March 2007 (EST)

I didn't find that image but i found a color image of the imperial one. I'm not going to do anything right now though. 67.142.130.37 00:48, 5 March 2007 (EST)

Dead End?

First off: I love this article. This was a really fascinating read that added a lot to the "Elder Scrolls" setting for me.

Second: I think there's a dead link in the opening paragraphs of the article. The first reference to "Hermorah" links to the "Khajiit Pantheon" sub-section, but there is no mention of this particular deity in the list. I think that Hermorah is supposed to be comparable to the Daedric Prince, Hermaeus Mora, but I don't want to add to this page until a third party can confirm that.

-- WhiteFangRMB 11:02, 22 August 2007 (EDT)

Heresay

I have heard it said that the small Alfiq are the most intelligent and magical of all Khajiit, and possibly more talented than any other race in Tamriel when it comes to the predicative magicks; exploring the prior inner workings of things and their deduced conclusions. Using this science they are said to be masters of prognostication and divination.

Unable to speak they use uniquely carved wooden boards marked with words and letters upon which they "dance," often employing an Ohmes or an Ohmes-raht as a voice--a speaker who says or sings aloud the words of the Alfiq as it dances out its replies. These Alfiq are often quite well off and live in splendid abodes typically pampered by select servants and guarded by fierce Senche. It is said the current Grand Master of the Elsweyr Thieves Guild is, in fact, an Alfiq.

Rarely, it is said an Alfiq will be found outside of the comforts of Elsweyr furthering its studies of arcane arts in the company of a non-Khajiti wizard, and may well be the source of the legend of the traditional witch's or sorcerer's cat familiar.

-Spydre

What's your source for this? Because without knowing where it came from, we can't add it to the article - for all we know it could just be made up. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 10:04, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Beast Races

The only two "beast races" are the Khajiit and the Argonians. It's true that earlier, prejudiced views held the Orcs as beasts but more recent thought clearly clarifies them as descendants of the Aldmer; this is confirmed by more recent editions of things like the Pocket Guide to the Empire. It's true that Orcs were not previously a playable race and only counted amongst the monsters, but that's not the point. Orcs aren't beasts and that is what matters on this article. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 18:34, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

OK, first, let's establish what "beastfolk" or the "beast races" means in Elder Scrolls lore. Several references make it clear that beast folk is fundamentally used to describe races that inhabited Tamriel before the Aldmer migrated to the region (e.g., Father Of The Niben'; 2920, First Seed).

Unfortunately, that is not sufficient to clearly state whether or not the orcs are beastfolk, because there is considerable debate about the actual origins of orcs. Before the Ages of Man includes orcs in the list of merethic-era inhabitants of Tamriel. However, other sources repudiate that and claim that orcs are the children of Trinimac, in particular The True Nature of Orcs. Probably the two paragraphs at the end of Father Of The Niben summarize the debate best: if you choose to believe that the correct translation of "cursed folk" from an ancient, incomplete Aldmeri scroll is "orc" then it seems that orcs were among the original inhabitants of Tamriel. Or else you can opt to believe the orcish traditions describing their origins, in which case they were not among those inhabitants. Given the general prejudice against orcs, I'd tend to believe the orcish traditions rather than other people's accounts.

Either way, the topic seems too complex and debatable to justify simply listing orcs as one of the beast folks without a more complete explanation. And an article on the Khajiit is not the appropriate place for such details. So I'd say this article should stick to the standard definitions of the races (as, for example, listed at Lore:Races). Any revisionist definitions should be introduced at Lore:Orc, not here. --Nephele^Talk 18:57, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Argonians?

" There she fashioned them in many forms, one for each purpose they might need, and having done so, named them the Khajiit, teaching them the secrets entrusted to her, and binding them to the Lunar Lattice.

In speaking the secrets, the first was heard by Y'ffer, who told Nirni of Azurah's deed. Nirni, in retribution for her changed, and now lost, children made the deserts hot and sands biting, and filled the forests with water and poison. "

Does this suggest this is the origin (or believed origin) of Argonians? 68.166.64.134 05:07, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

Contents?

This is a long article. Good, yes. But long. Perhaps one who is more skilled at wiki-editing can add a table of contents to help navigating this page easier? — Unsigned comment by 24.119.198.92 (talk)

Done. I've had to make a couple of other tweaks because of the way the page is transcluded but they look okay to me. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:57, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

4.1 - Etymological Note - Possible original research?

"The title "khajiit" is derived from the Ta'agra-ish words "khaj" and "-iit", a literal translation of which would be "one who deserts". The Khajiit themselves, however, point out that the only action of value that may be taken in a desert is to walk; as such, a proper translation would be "one who walks in the desert". For this reason, "khajiit" is translated in short-hand as "desert-walker", and thus are many Khajiit known."

What's the source on this? I find it difficult to believe that in Cyrodilic and Khajiiti, as well as English, "to desert" (verb) and "a desert" (noun) have the same morphological stem. Smells like original research to me - I have a hard time believing one of the Bethesda loremasters was this sloppy. --Kementari 02:37, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

Nope, it's official lore. According to Jobasha/Douglas Goodall: "Iit" is more like what men and mer call a job. Khaj is desert or sand, yes, and Khajiit is, as men would say, "one who sands" or "one who deserts." But men do not know what one does in a desert: walk. So we Khajiit say it means "desert walker." See the full interview at the Imperial Library. --Gaebrial 03:18, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

Anthropic?

Just corrected a grammatical error in this sentence:

The Khajiit, along with the Argonians, make up the so called 'beast races' of the Empire, due to their anthropic qualities.

But I'm still not sure that "Anthropic" is the correct word here. It basically means "human-like", and of course Khajiits and Argonians are called "beast races" specifically because of their NON-human-like qualities. Otherwise they'd just be called races, like everyone else. Can anyone come up with a better word? Or is this actually sourced from Bethesda? (I searched for the word on the site to no avail, but there's stuff like the PGE that isn't on the site where this could come from.) --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 09:31, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Perhaps because the original wording of the sentence was correct: "due to their therianthropic qualities." It may not be a common word (see, for example wikipedia), but at least its meaning is accurate. It's also infinitely better than an invented word such as "anthropic," which was coined specifically for Anthropic Principle and is only ever used in that context. --Nephele^Talk 14:34, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

I don't know, Dictionary.com, Wiktionary, Mirriam-Webster, American Heritage, and Free Dictionary all acknowledge the existence of "anthropic", without specifically mentionning the Anthropic Principle, but yes, it is the wrong word. "Therianthropic" may be accurate, but it's a word that I think 90% of the visitors to this site will never have heard of (I myself possess what I believe to be a better-than-average vocabulary, and it was new to me). Is there another word we can use that will have the same connoitation and yet not be such an obscure word that editors will (as in this case) assume it must be an error? Or is it sourced from Bethesda and thus worth keeping just for authenticity's sake? --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:18, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

"Anthropomorphic?" It's more common than "Therianthropic" and seems to fit just as well in this situation. -Rycr 04:38, 6 February 2009 (EST)

Lunar Lattice

"Ja-Kha'jay, to you Fadomai gives the Lattice, for what is steadier than the phases of the moons? Your eternal motions will protect us from Ahnurr's anger." And the moons left to take their place in the heavens. And Ahnurr growled and shook the Great Darkness, but he could not cross the Lattice." and "And Azurah bound the new Khajiit to the Lunar Lattice, as is proper for Nirni's secret defenders. Then Azurah spoke the Third Secret, and the Moons shone down on the marshes and their light became sugar."

Those are quotes from Lore:Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi, to help with the current discussion. --Benould^•T•C 13:35, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Moon Sugar and the Lunar Lattice

I've just spent 30 minutes performing the search suggested by Temple-Zero and then re-reading the books he suggested and I'm afraid that nothing can be found to support his theory that the consumption of moon sugar reinforces the lunar lattice. Temple-Zero has insisted that I spend yet more time by discussing the matter on the talk page, so here we go.

Specifically, he suggested The Lunar Lorkhan, Liminal Bridges and Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi. Let's go through these in order.

• The Lunar Lorkhan: Mentions of moon sugar - none; Mentions of Liminal Barriers or the Lunar Lattice - none; Mentions of Khajiit beliefs - none.
• Liminal Bridges: Mentions of moon sugar - none; Mentions of Liminal Barriers or the Lunar Lattice - two (both to do with Oblivion Gates); Mentions of Khajiit beliefs - none.
• Words of...: Well this one mentions all of these so let's look a little closer.

"Ja-Kha'jay, to you Fadomai gives the Lattice, for what is steadier than the phases of the moons? Your eternal motions will protect us from Ahnurr's anger." And the moons left to take their place in the heavens. And Ahnurr growled and shook the Great Darkness, but he could not cross the Lattice.

and then later:

Then Azurah spoke the Third Secret, and the Moons shone down on the marshes and their light became sugar.

But where is the reference to the Khajiit belief that consuming moon sugar strengthens the barriers? There isn't one. It's not there. There's no such text.

In other words, this latest addition has no source. I will therefore be undoing the edit yet again, and unless Temple-Zero comes forward with more sources I will continue to do so, despite the fact that this will violate TRR. I feel the removal of material that has been demonstrated as incorrect warrants such violation. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:48, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Thanks, Benould. Who are Fadomai's children? The Daedra. If they cannot cross the Lunar Lattice, then we must assume that this refers to the thing that keeps Dagon out of Mundus as well. But we don't need to only assume that these are the Liminal Barriers, because what are the moons? They are the remnants of Lorkhan. What did Lorkhan do? He gave himself over to the creation of Mundus, similar to what the Daedra did. (Hence Mankar Cameron's speech, y'all) The Daedric realms don't flow into each other and collide because they are separate entities. Atoms do not pass through each other even though they are mostly empty space. They are held apart by electromagnetic fields. What are the electromagnetic fields of Nirn? The "reasonable selfishness" (Lunar Lorkhan) that Lorkhan conveyed to the world with his Heart. And that's not all. The Towers do the same thing, but their version of "reasonable selfishness" is the cultural and spiritual worldview of the builders. Adamantine Tower on Balfiera Island. Red Mountain. Now the some of the artificial ones you will know: White Gold Tower, Numidium. The khajiit have been described on the forums as Nirn's secret Tower, because they transmit the energy of the moons to Nirn through the cultivation of moon sugar just as the Towers of the Aldmer transmitted energy from Aetherius to Nirn. It's all related. It wasn't the Dragonfires that kept the Daedra out, it was White Gold Tower, Red Mountain, and the drugs. It says it right there in Ahnissi, but it requires more than eight grade reading comprehension. It is not the job of the editors to bring the complexity of the articles down to their own tier of understanding. If, however, it is your position as an editor that a concept is too obtuse to be useful in the certain context of an article, there are better things to do than deleting it entirely. My contribution on the nature of the Lunar Lattice and the relationship of the khajiit to it was of great importance and unquestionably well-supported by a moment's reading. So why don't we compromise for now?Temple-Zero 13:57, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

The weak point of your argument is that you quote the forums as your source. I hate to break it to you, but the Bethesda Lore forum is NOT an official source. Just because it's on Bethesda's official site does not make it so. Most of the discussion there takes place between fans of the series - i.e. NOT Bethesda employees. In fact, Bethesda employees are most likely under agreement NOT to discuss this sort of thing on the forums, and when they do say anything anywhere, it has to be gone over very carefully to ensure that it fits within the established lore of the games, which is the major reason they do this so rarely. The forums cannot be seen as a credible source simply because ANYbody can post there, and people make stuff up when things don't jive with what they believe. I've seen it happen and called them out on it on numerous occasions. Additionally, since forum posts get cleaned off the server after they're a few months old, anything posted there suffers from impermanence, which makes it useless to quote as a source, as the post you're quoting will not exist to be checked up on later. Sites like TIL are acceptable, and we reference them in many places, but again, we can only allow official Bethesda-sourced statements as references. Speculation by fans, no matter how well supported, is still just speculation. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 14:29, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

I don't recall quoting the forums here. But since you brought up the tangent, let's sine it. If a dev has to check his lore before posting on the forums, he's not really a lore-writing dev, now is he? A significant portion of ES source-text requires interpretation, deciphering, and cross-referencing, not simple reading. The devs on the forums coach, reveal, and verify the messages the sources were meant to impart. At that point it ceases to be fan speculation, and becomes part of the aggregate knowledge of the community. UESP cannot dispute this knowledge, they can only control how it is transcribed. If they want to be more prudish with copyright, verification, and continuity than Bethesda employees, that's their business, although I'm sure the site does not speak with one voice. Back on topic, I assume the correct edit is acceptable.

Ahem. "The khajiit have been described on the forums as Nirn's secret Tower". The forums can call them whatever they want. If it wasn't stated by devs, it's unofficial. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 15:15, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

That was what is commonly known as an anecdote, in this case serving as a reference in explaining a concept. The sources do not speak for themselves, but must be interpreted and explained. As this is a Talk page, and I am speaking in first person, you should expect to see this rhetorical device. But it is good that you cleared your throat, because it no doubt made it easier to put your foot in your mouth. Temple-Zero 16:07, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Regarding the Khajiits in Oblivion

"Unlike the many other species of Khajiit, who walk, like cats, upon the balls of their feet, the Ohmes-raht walk upon their heels."

"The majority of Khajiit encountered in Redguard, Morrowind and Oblivion are of the Suthay-raht strain."

Seeing as the ones in Oblivion walk on their heels, wouldn't this make them Ohmes-raht, and not Suthay-raht? (Or is their faces way changed also? In which case I understand.)

Vampire Kitties

What do Vampire Khajiit's look like? Integra 20:53, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Normal Khajiits with long fangs and white eyes (Morrowind), or pale-furred khajiits with red eyes (Oblivion) — Unsigned comment by Lucky the Cat Guy (talk • contribs) on 21 August 2010

Too many problems too list

Well someone's decided to go overboard -they've seemingly written half the article incharacter, and developed the rest of it with their own ideas, rather than writing it with facts in mind and decided not to even reference anything. Kudos to that 'wonderful' person.

Just one paragraph worth of problems:

"Ta'agra, the native language of the Khajiit, is poorly understood by those of other races; this ignorance may be attributed primarily to the lack of Khajiit literature, the Khajiiti people making use of an oral method for the preservation of their history. Consequently, few scholars have access to the scripts necessary to translate Ta'agra, and the natural disdain Khajiit share for inculcating foreigners into their culture forestalls any chance of learning the tongue from a Khajiiti citizen. That much having been said, the following encompasses those words found in Ta'agra for which an accurate translation has been obtained:"

Ta'agra IS understood by those of other races, to the extent Cyrus has a complete conversation English/Tamrielic to Ta'Agra conversation in the intro to Redguard, and then secondly inresponse to the 'Khajiit people making use of an oral method for the preservation of their history", in direct contradiction we find "They have sought solace in their rich literary tradition, finding the tales of Rajhin the Thief to speak to their people, but they have stopped the flow of books into their land, for fear of Imperial propaganda." in the Pocket Guide to the Empire, 3rd Edition. And lastly, in response to "and the natural disdain Khajiit share for inculcating foreigners into their culture forestalls any chance of learning the tongue from a Khajiiti citizen.", in The Infernal City, the Khajiit openly invite Attrebus and Sul into a welcoming ceremony into their Clan. — Unsigned comment by The Old Ye Bard (talk • contribs) at 02:25 on 29 October 2010

Fixing the problems is more productive than standing on the sidelines pointing some of them out. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:52, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Thought it may be wise to bring it up first in the discussion section rather than getting straight into revising the entire article. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong and most of this stuff does have references in lore (which they don't, but I'm just saying). --The Old Ye Bard 04:03, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Moons Aligned?

Does this image actually occur in any of the games, or is it user-made? The distinction should be pointed out clearly once we are sure. 74.128.56.194 05:03, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I am nearly entirely positive they are taken from Oblivion, as the moons do cycle.Alpha Kenny Buddy 07:08, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

The other images are taken from Morrowind, not Oblivion. I'm not sure about that one though - it might be user-generated but the user who uploaded it is no longer active so I can't ask him. rpeh •T•C•E• 07:13, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

'specially the Mane eclipse, haven't a clue where I'd find that in any game, awesome pictures never the less. Looks like they belong to Bethesda though based on the file's page --Yal 09:40, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Masser is a color-altered image of Mars. Secunda I think is one of Jupiter's moons, or maybe Saturn's. I forget which. I only know this because I worked on a project once that involved getting very familiar with Martian geography. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 14:49, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

spelling error corrected

I came across "langauge", changed this into language, as it should be.

Thanks! In the future you don't need to let us know - someone will check to see what you did, not summarily revert it!--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 22:46, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Khajiit language

(moved from the article) The following are beleaved to be Khajiit and are spoken by S'Rathra in Redguard.

• "Sitcho" means "sit".
• "Shya" means "coin".
• "Whor" may mean "was".
• "Rhica" means "concerned".
• "Ex" means "fix".
• "Krail" means "anything".
• "Ka" means "What".
• "Kader" means "kind" as in "I like that -kind- of...."
• "Ranriji" means "ruffian".
• "Nor" means "night".
• "Horkor" means "heavy"
• "woy" means with "with"

These word were spoken by a Imperialised Khajiit with a mix of imperial words.

I've moved this for the moment to see if we can get confirmation. I'd rather not add something as fact when it only comes from one person's in-game experience. If a couple of other people agree these words seem right, they can go on. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Linkee brokee

Link to Elder Scrolls Official Codex is broken. 95.139.21.25 00:03, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Link has been fixed. -- Jplatinum16 00:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Indian culture

It seems to me that Khajiit culture is profoundly influenced by Indian culture. Some similarities include their names and language, the importance of mind-altering substances in their religion, their multitude of ethnicites (or "breeds" in this case), diverse geography of their county, the large number of deities that they revere, the use of the scimitar (of which Indians have a varient called a Talwar) and the use of bazaars (although this is originally a Persian concept and used world-over, It is particularly common in India) and how their society revolves heavily around family and religion/spirituality. Thats all I can think of, but I think it's a considerable amount of parallels. Call me racist, but the Khajiit accents in both Morrowind and Oblivion struck me as Indian sounding.--TheLastSwordSinger 02:20, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

The accents sounded Russian/Eastern European to me... I agree that it seems likely that Indian culture may have had an influence on the Khajiit, but if it's to be noted I think it should go in a Trivia section down the bottom, as it doesn't have anything to do with the lore. Legoless 16:17, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Senche-Raht

Can the Senche-Raht speak? Or the Senche? Count Marius Caro 21:29, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Those encountered in The Infernal City could not speak Cyrodiilic, but were still able to communicate with other Khajiit's. Dlarsh^(T,C) 22:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

What the Hell does Lilmoth mean? just so i can define it on the lilmothiit page....

what does it mean?????? Nowhere does it say in Ta'agra what Lil or Moth mean.....the other language pages are WAY better. Especially Ayleid and Dragon. I know those. Just tell me BTW....please.

LS13 — Unsigned comment by 65.96.102.171 (talk) at 01:45 on 23 June 2011

Why do you assume we know? Lilmoth has been named since Arena; Lilmoth + Khajiit = Lilmothiit. I doubt any effort was put into the race, especially considering it was mentioned a grand total of about three times in the pocket guide. --Legoless 00:51, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Revoking Featured Status

This article was featured based on standards that were created five years ago this month. That creates a problem. We need to make sure this is a Featured Article on today's standards. Also, it wasn't even voted on. I think we should temporarily revoke the FA status until we can get more references, a better focus on the large sections, and references (did I say that twice?). Thoughts? Elliot (talk) 01:32, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. This article doesn't currently meet site standards. The single biggest problem with this is the lack of correctly linked references (See this article for how it should be done essentially). While I personally believe this article is well written; the fact that it wasn't properly voted on and the lack of correctly linked references make it a bit hard to continue to consider it to be an example of how we Lore Articles written. While I wouldn't wish to see this article have it's featured status removed simply due to a change in style, the lack of voting on this makes it clear that it needs it's status removed. I'd also like to point out that the other article Aristeo gave featured status without a vote, General:Bethesda, had it's featured status removed a while ago (As seen in this edit). --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 03:00, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

I support this as well. Although I'd prefer if it was allowed to remain on the "previous featured articles" list, for archival purposes. --Legoless 03:04, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, we should keep it there. We might make a note here on the talk page like Wikipedia does, but the sole purpose should be to get this article back up to standards. Elliot (talk) 03:48, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Delinking

I took the liberty and delinked Intelligence and Agility in the intro text. These links were creating redlinks on Skyrim:Khajiit since these attributes do not exist in Skyrim. I didn't know of any other way to fix that except for creating redirects to Skyrim:Races#Notes, but I didn't think that was necessary and preferred to do it this way, especially since those links weren't all that important. Wolok gro-Barok 13:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

No shape shifting cats

In the part about the moon, it says there are no shape shifting khajiits, but In a certain book (I think it is called battle tactics, or something similar.) in the game Oblivion, it records a battle whereas the Kahjiits are facing an enemy, and there is a uncertain claim that the Kahjiit mages cahnged into household cats for the battle, but the cretibility of the source is question. I think it would be worth it to change this to say there has been a claim of shape shifting kahjiits, but its validity has been questioned. — Unsigned comment by 86.150.227.2 (talk) at 10:14 on 11 December 2011

You're thinking of Mixed Unit Tactics, but given how unreliable the reference is claimed to be in the book itself, I don't think it's worth noting unless there's other corroborating evidence. – Robin Hood↝talk 22:38, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Until we know, the mystery is half the beauty :) --Yal 10:01, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Age

How long can a khajiit live for, i mean, maiq the liar is in skyrim 400 years AFTER oblivion, what is their average lifespan — Unsigned comment by 90.221.194.126 (talk) at 12:43 on 28 December 2011

One of Maiq's stated lines in Skyrim is, "Maiqs father was also called Maiq, as was his fathers father". Indicating that this isn't the exact same Maiq followed through Morrowind and Oblivion, but rather a decendant from down his family line. — Unsigned comment by 212.85.19.16 (talk) at 14:57 on 3 January 2012

Good point. Some may also bring up the idea that Elves have a long lifespan, so they will say it's possible that Khajiit may as well. True a possibility, however humans nor beast races have anything to do with elves as far as we know.

However, to counter-act this, how often do you suppose there is a Mane eclipse? If there must always be a Mane, one would have to live for a long time. Then again...one can make a whole new topic about the age range of all the different types of Khajiit. Perhaps Manes live longer. Perhaps a Mane dies as soon as one is born. Perhaps a Mane kills off several generations of potential Manes before he dies. Who knows? Bottom line, I don't know of any information that indicates age for the common Khajiit. --Yal 09:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Lunar table layout

Now, I don't know if there's an in-game source for the layout of the lunar phase table, but I wanted to suggest that if there isn't, it would be best reversed on both axes. As we normally read bottom-to-top & left-to-right, it makes sense that waxing precede full, and waning precede new, rather than the current order, which seems to imply waxing leads to new. - BalthCat 18:22, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Name prefixes

Just wondering how the meaning of some of the name prefixes are meant. "M" or "Ma" is to imply "child" or "virgin", eventually these fellas are going to grow up too, right? But they get to keep their name for the rest of their lives? What about those prefixes meaning young adult, adult, or grandfather?--88.117.64.129 16:42, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

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