User talk:Elliot

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Hey thanks, I really like it, esp the color coding. -- 07:39, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Litany of LarcenyEdit

I've had this type of discussion with several other editors in the past, and I'm kind of confused. You've been on the Wiki longer, so you would obviously know best, but you do know that text doesn't actually appear in-game, right? Even if it is in whatever files it was extracted from, it's a miscellaneous objective, and miscellaneous objectives don't have any entries beyond the description of what you're actually supposed to do. Not to mention they can't be viewed in the journal after completion.

I guess what I'm asking is, is the general policy of the wiki to add things that don't actually appear in normal gameplay? ThuumofReason 18:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Take a look at Skyrim Mod:Mod File Format/QUST for how quests are set up in the files. QOBJ are the quest stage numbers, NNAM is what you see in (Objective Assigned), and CNAM is what you have been trying to remove. It's what shows up in the files of the game, so it's what we use for consistency. elliot (talk) 18:37, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough, but what about that Boethia's bidding thing? Is that another thing that's in the files? Because I promise you it's not actually in the game as of 1.3.10. I haven't seen any evidence anywhere of this quest actually existing, and several other people have noticed it too. Are you absolutely sure that you're not confusing it with the Daedric quest? ThuumofReason 18:41, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
It's a quest. It may be bugged so that it can't be started, but it's definitely there. The journal entries/stages are legit as well. I don't have a character to that level, so I can't test it myself (or try to force it). elliot (talk) 18:48, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


It's a technical term used by members of the group that vandal claimed to represent to denote a person who doesn't understand the way that group works and is, in essence, a poser. Pretty much that entire post is jargon that should be understood by people truly familiar with the group, as our vandal friend claimed to be, so my post was essentially calling his bluff in such a way that he would understand. ThuumofReason 19:08, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I am well aware of 4chan and /b/ jargon, which is precisely why I removed it. elliot (talk) 19:09, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
So was it the word "newfag" you objected to me using, or the use of the jargon itself? Either way I'll be more judicious in my use of potentially offensive language in the future. ThuumofReason 19:12, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
It's offensive in both jargon and natural interpretation. elliot (talk) 19:14, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Right, so I won't use that one term or others like it that may cause contention. ThuumofReason 19:15, 8 January 2012 (UTC)


Choco chip cookie.png
You have been given a cookie!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

Thank you for all the help with the WordWall, Quest Item, and Quest Item Data templates! Your help has been invaluable, both to me and the wiki. ?• JATalk
No problem. Gotta do something, right? Haha Thanks. elliot (talk) 05:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
You've helped (I should probably say saved) my projects, so I'd like to return the favor. I see that one of your projects is to "Updating template /doc's." Is this straightforward updating, adding, or both? Either way, I'll get right on it, since I'm in between projects. ?• JATalk 06:12, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Well, it basically included changing the docs from this to this. I think I got most of them done, but feel free to search any of them that are still like that. Thanks! elliot (talk) 06:30, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I see. I went ahead and updated Book Summary and created a Doc for Ingredient Summary. It took a while, which is why I'm glad most of them have already been done. I do need help with the Ingredient Summary one, though. There is a parameter called "crloc" that I can't figure out the function of. Could you please poke in and see if you can figure out it's function? ?• JATalk 08:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Cool, thanks. Crloc creates the "Found" entry (e.g. Morrowind:Crab Meat). elliot (talk) 13:39, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank youEdit

...for fixing that. Not quite sure what happened there. rpeh •TCE

Help me! (Please)Edit

Template:WordWall is screwed up! Look at Skyrim:Whirlwind Sprint for an example. For some reason, all of the text is there to display it as a table, but it's not doing so. I had to use the special characters &_#123; and &_#125; (without underscores) for the curly braces, which may have screwed it up. I have an idea, but if it doesn't work, then I humbly request your assistance. ?• JATalk 03:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. If you want to use the hide parameter, then you want to make sure you provide the header for the larger table. I am assuming you want to make a large table on the word wall page. Let me know if there are any issues. elliot (talk) 03:08, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Works perfectly, thanks for the help. And yes, that's what I'm experimenting with. ?• JATalk 03:10, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Hovertext QuirkEdit

For some reason, on an image if you specify the link and the hovertext, the link overrides the hovertext. Is there a workaround to this?

Ex: [[Image:SR-icon-Basic Trainer.png|link=Skyrim:Block|Block (Common)]]Block (Common)

??• JATalk 00:03, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Answered on my talk page. Robin Hoodtalk 02:36, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Alc Tool Review?Edit

I'd be interested in your opinion on - anything I could add / improve? I've got a fair bit in mind still myself, mostly involving additional information provided about recipes, but I'm wondering if the interface needs any further revision / explanation. I know its pretty dense, partly because I aimed to allow users to answer pretty much any conceivable search type (except resulting mixture value - I still need to set those into my DB). If its worth using, please mention so on the community alchemy portal with the other sites you reviewed! SW 12:44, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Mehrunes' RazorEdit

Ok, sorry, I just figured they would have be better linking to a page with all 3 of them on. — Kimi the Elf (talk | contribs) 20:56, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

You had the right idea, but we want to make sure they are pointing to the right places. They will still be on the artifact page though. elliot (talk) 21:01, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

EditsPerDay acting upEdit

Okay, this userbox, {{User EditsPerDay}}, is acting a bit strange. For some reason, the #expr is screwing up and returning: Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character "?". I can't figure out why. Can you please help? ?• JATalk 08:14, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

I have an idea what the problem is. For some reason, transcluding from Special:Editcount/User adds an unnecessary line break before the number. Example: 12,929. Can you change that, since I don't have the privileges to? ?• JATalk 08:21, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Both are creating problems. {{#len:{{DaysSince|2009|4|4}}}} is 4, which causes problems. And the line break, as you mentioned, is another problem. I look into it. elliot (talk) 08:24, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I don't believe you can do what you're trying to. Transcluding Editcount is much like using certain other functions (e.g., <nowiki>) in that all it returns as far as the wiki is concerned is a token that acts as though it were a single character: {{#len:<nowiki>Hello</nowiki>}} = 0, and similarly, {{#len:{{Special:Editcount/RobinHood70}}}} = 0. In other words, you're trying to do math on this token, rather than on the data it contains. To my knowledge, there's no way around that. Don't shoot me...I'm just the messenger. ;) Robin Hoodtalk 08:38, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Rather than treating the result as individual characters, it handles it as a single variable (or rather a pointer to a variable), and it is treated as so by the code but when rendered it appears the same as everything else. Crud. That sounds like a MediaWiki problem. Would converting it into a variable via #var work, if that plugin was used on this site? ?• JATalk 09:20, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
We have #local and #define to do the same thing as #var, and no, they just hold the same thing as what's output. So far as I know, that's a very low level wiki design "feature", so pretty much nothing can bypass it. Robin Hoodtalk 10:00, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

() I won't give up! There are two things I can think of: #load/#save and url variables. I have absolutely no idea how to use url variables or if they would work. #load and #save properly loads the entire thing as a variable rather than a pointer/token to a variable. That would definitely work in the case of Special:Editcount/user because each user has their own subpage that can be directly linked to. However, I have no idea how that would work in the case of {{DaysSince}}.  ?• JATalk 18:55, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Quest Icons CoolEdit

Well, that said what I had to say. --JRTalk E-mail 04:26, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Need a bit of helpEdit

Hey, I just created a new template, {{SkyrimBox}}. It displays perfectly in preview, but once you exit the borders (which are gradients) won't display. Any ideas? Feel free to look around in the code. ?• JATalk 07:16, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

What's your intention for this box? The preview isn't working for me in Firefox 10.0.1 so I am not sure it would be a good choice. elliot (talk) 07:25, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
I was planning on using it as, well, a box, just more Skyrim-y. I'm going to transclude it for you to see, because for some reason, it just won't work on the SkyrimBox page.
This is a test.
It displays just fine for me. I'll download FireFox and test on that. Also, do you see a gradient on rpeh's user page, or is it just solid color borders? ?• JATalk 07:35, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
You're right, Firefox 10.0.1 isn't very happy about the gradients. I'll see what I can do about it. ?• JATalk 07:46, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
I can see it in Chrome; however, I am still skeptical about its use. elliot (talk) 07:53, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Found the problem. I had a comma floating around where it shouldn't have been. It now works on Firefox. Next I'm going to fix it for IE. I'm personally going to use this box, but I'm allowing others to use it as well. ?• JATalk 08:04, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Ok, good fix. I'm not big on that type of styling, so I don't know much about it. But good work. :) elliot (talk) 08:07, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks :) It looks like IE users will have to live without the pretty gradients. I looked at the code for it, and it is absolutely insane. Do you happen to know if there is a detectBrowser() type of function (with HTML, CSS, Javascript, anything)? The other option is being able to stretch an image, but I don't think you can do that on this wiki. Can you? ?• JATalk 08:23, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
I know you can use the navigator object in Javascript, but getting that function on the wiki may be more than it's worth. elliot (talk) 08:26, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, in general I've been avoiding Javascript. The only lead I have is this, which would allow <img> tags, which would in turn allow images to be stretched, which would make this template (as well as any other template that would stretch an image) work. I don't know about implementing it, though. ?• JATalk 08:33, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Here's the link that Daveh (or Nephele, if she does it) would be interested in - it's the extension itself. ?• JATalk 08:36, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

() Because I felt you needed another challenge :), I thought you might be able to do something almost identical without gradients, just using regular borders. For example (quick mockup of top-left corner only...obviously needs minor tweaks):

Lorem ipsum yadda yadda yadda...

I don't know if you can make that work across all browsers, cuz rendering can often be off by a pixel or two, not to mention behavioural changes, but it might be something to play with. Robin Hoodtalk 09:15, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that's surprisingly close. I could probably tweak it to match up perfectly, but that will have to be tomorrow. I think that in the long run, the best solution would be to add the EmbedImg extension, because with that we could just take a plain old image, stretch it, and use it as our border. Nevermind, that wouldn't be very flexible. ?• JATalk 09:33, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Okay, this is a test box. I used two <div> tags to allow the complex border. I'm saving this to see if it works on Firefox, Chrome, and IE7. ?• JATalk 03:58, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Skyrim-Box-TL.gif Skyrim-Box-TR.gif
Lorem ipsum yadda yadda yadda...
Good job! Yours even works in IE9, where mine breaks. (Confirmed in all 5 major browsers, actually.) Robin Hoodtalk 04:26, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
By "Confirmed in all 5 major browsers", do you mean that it works in all 5 or it's broken in all 5? If so, then I'll update the existing template. ?• JATalk 04:50, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Ah crap, it's broken. If the text is more than one line, only one line of side borders will display. The <div> tags need to be nested in order to display next to each other, but for some reason the nested tags only display their results if there is something in them. Urgh. I'm going to work on this in my sandbox. ?• JATalk 05:10, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Blech...yeah, same with mine, cuz it's using the same approach. Not sure what to suggest. Robin Hoodtalk 05:17, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

() Yes, it works now! I used about a dozen nested <div> tags to fix the spacing issues. Read the code, but only if you dare.... I'd explain how it works, but that entails understanding how it works :). Just to prove it, here are a few examples:

This is a single line of text
This is the first line of text,
and this is the second line
This one has a fixed width

Huzzah! ?• JATalk 07:19, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Impressive! As for the code, tonight I don't dare, but I'll be curious to see what you've done when I'm a little more clear-headed. Robin Hoodtalk 07:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
I hate to burst your bubble so soon after complimenting you, but... I just started my run through on different browsers...minor alignment issues on IE9, but FF really doesn't like what you've done with the template. It's hard to describe, but the space between the corner graphics on top and bottom is empty (no borders of any kind), except in the fixed-width box, where the top and bottom borders are shifted to the right by about 40px. The left border looks great, but the right border is shifted right by about 40px as well. Oh, and neither of the first two boxes actually appear on one line—they're reduced to the width of the widest word. Don't you love how inter-compatible browsers are? Robin Hoodtalk 07:39, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Running latest version of FireFox as well and the only one that works is the second attempt with "Lorem ipsum yadda yadda yadda..." Thuraya Salaris 07:48, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm looking at that too. The problem is that even though I'm explicitly telling the wiki that the columns on the sides (with the corner squares) are exactly 40 pixels wide, for some reason Firefox (and IE7) are completely ignoring it. This results in very narrow boxes with a hidden top border. And yes, why make our jobs easy when they could create a dozen different web browsers that aren't compatible with each other? ?• JATalk 08:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Update: Now works on FireFox and Opera (and still works on Safari and Chrome). Can anyone test IE8 and Opera? IE7 has decided that the top and bottom bars don't exist at all. ?• JATalk 03:15, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
I can't tell you how it is on IE8 (though we might have it downstairs...I'll check later), but on IE9, the top border is bumped down by one pixel on boxes 1, 3, and 4, but box 2 is fine. Did you wanna scream now? :P Robin Hoodtalk 04:13, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

() Okay, I completely scrapped the wikitable and tried out a plain old HTML table. It finally works on IE7. I think. Crossing my fingers! ?• JATalk 04:53, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Works on Safari, Chrome, FireFox, and Opera. IE7 stretches the table across the screen, but I'm working on that. Can you please check IE9 and IE8? ?• JATalk 05:09, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

IE9 shows the same single-pixel shift on the top border only except for the second box, which looks perfect. IE8 shows the same gaps I described in the "I hate to burst your bubble" message except on the fixed-width version, where it looks perfect. Robin Hoodtalk 05:42, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure what you are describing. Could you please upload some screenshots to the wiki so I can see exactly what you are describing? ?• JATalk 05:45, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Sure, but it'll have to wait till tomorrow. Robin Hoodtalk 06:23, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Okay, thanks in advance. ?• JATalk 06:45, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Okay, have a look here and you'll see what I mean. Robin Hoodtalk 20:29, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the well-formatted image! I'll get right on it. ?• JATalk 20:51, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Okay, how does it look now? I'd download IE8 and IE9 myself but my wimpy internet connection can't handle it :( ?• JATalk 21:03, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

() Okay, it now works on IE8, Chrome, Safari, Firefox, and Opera. Can you check if it works on IE9? ?• JATalk 01:53, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Perfect in IE9 too! Robin Hoodtalk 02:19, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
YES! ?• JATalk 02:21, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your help! RH70 for helping with checking compatibility, and Elliot for tolerating having this discussion on his talk page! ?• JATalk 02:34, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Archive ReorganizationEdit

This is just a quick notice that UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard/Archive 13 will need fixing up, since it includes several of the articles that were moved (and are now proposed for deletion). --Alfwyn 12:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I am fully aware. Many of those archives need fixed. I am going to do them all at once when I am done so it saves on the number of edits. elliot (talk) 16:54, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, that archive is currently proposed for deletion and just broken. Perhaps proposing the redirects for deletion after the links to it have been fixed will be a better strategy. --Alfwyn 17:10, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I am fully aware that it is broken. I can prod them after, but it's not a big deal. elliot (talk) 17:15, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Darkwater EditEdit

Hey sorry about that I didn't know that the catagory is added automatically. When I checked it after your edit it wasn't showing so I undid you. Sorry again for that, its showing correctly now. Lord EydvarTalk 03:39, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Dragon table editEdit

Hey, good call on your edits there. I intentionally made a bunch of edits rather than one major one so anyone could undo individual parts of my edits to the table if they thought it was better, but you just fixed a whole bunch at once, and I like it a lot more your way. :) ABCface 05:32, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Removal of Frost Dragon -4.png from DragonEdit

I don't really see why you removed that image for being flashy and not, for instance, the image directly across from it that didn't even show combat so much as breathing fire. It is somewhat low-res, but that really doesn't matter if it's a thumbnail. • JATalk 18:24, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

It's from the Elder Scrolls wiki. I knew it was (low resolution), I just needed time to find the link. elliot (talk) 18:41, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Okay. I did a search myself, but I didn't find it. Thanks for catching that. • JATalk 18:45, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Aspect ratioEdit

I was under the impression that the proper aspect ratio for this image would be 4:3. Is there something I'm missing? —SkoomaManiac TalkContribs 20:55, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

You are correct. However, on Whispers in the Dark, the {{Quest Header}} template already adds the "main" image to Category:Skyrim Quests with Non-Standard Images. Replicating that on the file page adds more work for when it is fixed. Now, if there are other issues with it, then it's no big deal, IMO. Keep in mind though, the color of the image is correct. That's how it looks in game; nevertheless, have you played the DB questline? elliot (talk) 21:00, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I have. One of the best in the game :). In the game, though, I seem to remember it looking bronzer. Something about it looks... Sandy/grainy to me. Regardless, I think the image should be replaced, but if that isn't what's wrong with it I can't wordify my why. —SkoomaManiac TalkContribs 21:04, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps you want it to be sharper/more crisp? I wouldn't disagree with that; however, considering the environment, it might be hard. But I would recommend holding off on an image tangent. Most images seen as "too dark" really aren't (Skyrim is naturally darker than Oblivion), and it's something I have been meaning to bring up on the CP. elliot (talk) 21:07, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Image tangent? Rephrase?
Yes, I think that's what I was reacting to. It isn't as focused as our better images. —SkoomaManiac TalkContribs 21:10, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Going around saying all of these images need to be fixed. Some of them have been for debatable reasons. I'm telling you to stop or anything, but you might make better use of your time with the really problematic images. elliot (talk) 21:12, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Mostly, I've been adding aspect ratio tags. And since I'm an Xbox player, unfortunately I can't take these pictures myself, although I'd love to. I haven't seen any INCREDIBLY problematic ones, but there are some with aspect ratios that confuse me as to how they're even possible. Ie, 438x1084. —SkoomaManiac TalkContribs 21:17, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
I'd say keep up the good work on the aspect ratios; just keep in mind that if the image is portrayed through a template, it's already marked in one way or another. But, I've been thinking that I might just be able to add a little code to all of the license templates to do it that way. I'm still ironing out some kinks though. elliot (talk) 21:51, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


By the looks of it, you may be the only member of the new group. I am glad as you deserve it. Just messaging to say how annoyed I am about some of the comments that were posted on my nomination. I have been apart of the site for two years and made many huge contributions and only certain editors, such as yourself, AKB ect seem to actually notice. Thanks for supporting my nomination on the noticeboard, and good luck for the future. --Manic 14:21, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!Edit

D'oh! I was looking and looking and I couldn't figure out what I'd done wrong! :) I think I also need to make the effects optional, so I'll go do that too. Robin Hoodtalk 06:52, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

When an effect is "None", it's messing up. I've been looking into that. elliot (talk) 06:54, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Which part is messing up? In some cases, the behaviour used to be to display nothing, I think, so it may be checking for that. Also, checks might be confused by the invisible cleanspace character at the very beginning. I did add a "nonetext" parameter as well, so if we need to display nothing, we can, once we deal with the cleanspace issue (either by removing it or using the funky #sub trick I mentioned on my To Do list). Robin Hoodtalk 08:11, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
You actually fixed it, and I was looking at the wrong template. So... ignore me. :) elliot (talk) 08:12, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
I can't blame you for looking at the wrong template...I kept getting confused as to which one I needed to change at any given moment too. There's one minor issue I'll want to look at tomorrow: "None" shows up in green on Ingredient Summaries. It never used to be a problem because it didn't used to show at all. There are several ways to fix it, but I'll want to play tomorrow to see which one's going to work out best. After that, I'll start #loading images in Effect Link rather than the clumsy NS_PARENT check that's there now, but that'll need more bot work, cuz the images that're there now are linked, which means I can't resize them for use as icons. Anyway, I'm tired and probably going on needlessly, but I figured you were the one most likely to be interested, so I thought I'd mention "the plan". (Plus I know other templaters like Jak will probably read this too.) Robin Hoodtalk 08:39, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

My armor imagesEdit

Hey, I thought I'd consult you seeing as you gave me support when I uploaded all the male and female armor images to the armor page. I've noticed that Dwarfmp has started reuploading better images - which is fine, they are clearer and crisper - but would it be too rude of me to request him to redo them all, if after a few days he stops? It's just that I put a lot of effort into all of those images so if they're going to be replaced with better ones, it'd be nice if they could all be uniform as mine were. The Invisible Chocobo 12:30, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes I'm working on it as we speak, so don't worry, I'll upload all of the armors, even new ones. Sorry for "undoing" your work, but your images were too dark ~ Dwarfmp 12:36, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
It's okay, thank you. Sorry I didn't talk to you directly. And it's alright, I have difficulty with things like brightness and colour correction, plus my resolution is low so I kinda expect all of my images to be replaced eventually. The Invisible Chocobo 14:11, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Let me reiterate...Edit

I know you and I haven't always agreed about everything in the past, but when it comes down to it, it's because you believe in the policies and rules of the site and upholding them, and you're not afraid of challenging the admins when you don't believe they have the wiki's best interests in mind, as defined by the rules. You're a damn fine editor who places rules at the highest priority, which, as I said in my comment on your nomination, is a good thing. Rules exist for a reason, and you're never afraid to remind us of that.

What I'm trying to say is, congratulations on the new group membership, and I can't think of anyone more fit for it. ThuumofReason 14:23, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. elliot (talk) 16:16, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Don't be a victimEdit

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself. - Harvey Fierstein (The Silencer has spokenTalk 21:31, 20 April 2012 (UTC))

Respawn noteEdit

I noticed that you removed the respawn note for the article for Gallus, saying it shouldn't be defined. I put it as "no" based on what I saw in the CK. Was this not correct? --Xyzzy 05:08, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, it was incorrect based on standards. There are no inner-workings with categories on it, but it should really only be defined when it equals anything but no. The no is essentially implied. elliot (talk) 05:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Ok. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the feedback. --Xyzzy 13:32, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Small Formatting RequestEdit

Hey there Elliot! I was wondering if you could take a second to help and/or inform on how to fix a problem I'm having with the current new page I'm working on. I'm having trouble figuring out some spacing on this one section, and I'm sort of a newbie to editing, so a little help would be appreciated. Thank you. SlyKhajiit 21:10, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

You can use {{NewLine}} for that. So for instance, your code would look something like:
All the template does is use <div style="clear:both">, which makes everything start on a new line (hence the name haha). elliot (talk) 02:18, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
I tried that newline thing, but when I used the same coding you are in the example, It posted the NPC's entire article. Maybe I was doing something else? SlyKhajiit 21:24, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
I went ahead and fixed it for you so you could see what I meant. I think what you might have done was transclude the article with something like {{Skyrim:Lydia}}. That basically loads the listed pages information onto whatever page the code is on. elliot (talk) 02:31, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
You're probably right. XD I'll probably get the hang of this coding eventually-This is sort of the real first step. Making my own page and such. Thanks again, Elliot! SlyKhajiit 21:37, 30 April 2012 (UTC)


Choco chip cookie.png
You have been given a cookie!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

This is just impressive. Thanks for doing something I didn't get around to, I really had absolutely no clue where to start on this without the page looking like a complete mess, but felt we definitely needed the article. Let's just hope this information holds true tomorrow, so we can focus on the DLC information! --AKB Talk Cont Mail 03:26, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! It's been awhile since I worked with just normal wiki syntax like that. It took me a while! elliot (talk) 03:28, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!Edit

All I can say is... d'oh! Robin Hoodtalk 05:12, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Achievement templateEdit

Hey, I just happened to notice the Achievement template is broken here, and can't figure out how to fix it myself, so I figured I'd just point it out to you. I assume you know how to fix it since you made the template. :) ABCface 13:18, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I went ahead and jumped in, I believe this fixes it. --kiz talkemail 13:22, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. I went ahead and fixed it like it was meant to be. I must have missed it when I was going through them for some reason. elliot (talk) 17:32, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
I see how its supposed to be done now, I just used the parameters and thought nothing of it! --kiz talkemail 17:45, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, that way definitely works. But we just want to keep it consistent. elliot (talk) 17:47, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Template ExamplesEdit

I've actually been moving away from using Pre examples, because honestly, they look ugly when there are several of them. For now, I've been using {{tl}} and its variants, but I'm not sure that's the best choice either. If you have any other suggestions, I'm open. It'd be nice to develop a template to show examples (like we did with the Parameters section), but I suspect doing so would be insanely difficult and unusable in a good number of situations. We could maybe bring a CSS style into play for some small degree of style harmonization, but again, I'm not sure how much that would add. I dunno...mostly rambling to see if you have any better ideas. :) Robin Hoodtalk 02:01, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

It's something that Wikipedia uses, and I really do believe it looks the best. I don't think an additional template is necessary, because it would overcomplicate the entire process. elliot (talk) 02:18, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Chezburgar's NominationEdit

Elliot, I understand and appreciate that everyone has a voice in community decisions and has a right to share their opinions, but as I know you've been told before, you often come across as combative and can sometimes seem as if you're trying to pick a fight. It may not necessarily be fair of people to suggest that you come back only to stir up trouble, but given that it hasn't gone that well the last few times you've been back, I'm sure you can see where they might be coming from. I'm sure you were just trying to express yourself fairly like everyone else, but your tone wasn't really helping things, given the direction that discussion was heading. Please remember to keep a level head in the future; I know it can be frustrating when discussions go sour like that, but being hostile only makes things worse. Sometimes the best thing you can do is walk away and come back to post when you have a cooler head, so please try to remember that the next time something like this happens. Thanks, eshetalk 14:03, 4 March 2013 (GMT)


Stop x.png This account has been blocked indefinitely from editing UESPWiki. If you wish to appeal the block, you may make your request on your talk page, which you can still edit even while being blocked.

Elliot, in the time since your last ban, you have contributed little to the site except for periodic rude, snide, condescending comments. You return out of nowhere with the apparent aim of correcting someone else's grave errors, but the result is always the same: you start a fight and disappear the second it looks like you might get a warning, only to return some weeks later to do the same thing all over again.

You have been given plenty of chances to correct your disrespectful, quarrelsome behavior, but repeatedly have ignored other users' warnings and advice. Your contributions at this point serve only to provoke other users and waste our time, and that is not beneficial to the UESPWiki community. An indefinite ban will remain in place on your account until you can successfully demonstrate your ability to contribute positively to UESPWiki, as per the appeal process. eshetalk 21:14, 19 May 2013 (GMT)

You know, Eshe, you really are something else. Instead of, you know, actually focusing on people who call other users cunts, dicks, asstwats, bastards, etc. you try to block me? Perhaps if you actually enforced the policies you claim to defend so well, I wouldn't have to be the one bring up the errors of other users. It's obvious all the administrators (and definitely you) have a hard on for me (since everything I do is so wrong and everything everyone else does is so right), but since when does what someone has done recently factor into anything? When has there been a requirement for what people edit? When did it become a requirement to edit a whole bunch of other things before bringing up the issues of other users? Can you tell me when those policies were written or did you just make them up as usual? Not that it matters though:

Elliot, in the time since your last ban, you have contributed little to the site except for periodic rude, snide, condescending comments.

Wrong, since my last ban (November 26, 2011), I have edited over 4,000 times, more than all but 35 editors have ever done. I suggest that you start counting from here. (Just to clarify the lie you told in order to validate this inappropriate block.)

It's why I was chosen for the autopatrolled group (it was made for users like me). Look above at all the comments I have received since my last ban. A lot of thank you's, a few cookies, etc. I set up a new archiving system for the AN and CP, made a brand new template, set up the icons for quests that are on thousands of pages (which required extensive work). So as you can see, I have contributed way more than a "little". This indefinite block is by no means warranted.

A week or so? Maybe. But an indefinite block is ridiculous, as is your complete ignoring of personal attacks thrown at me by The Silencer. So yes, consider this an appeal. elliot (talk) 21:58, 19 May 2013 (GMT)

I misspoke, perhaps: in the last several months, you have done little but stir up drama here. The conditions of your last ban state that you were permitted to continue editing, with a "zero-tolerance policy on impoliteness - not just personal attacks". You have been consistently disrespectful and discourteous to other users, and their behavior toward you does not excuse your actions.
You were chosen as an Autopatrolled user and you have made helpful contributions before, but I see little in your recent pattern of behavior that suggests that you need to continue editing, nor why that would be in the community's best interests, given all the disruptions you've caused lately. If you could address these concerns, I would be happy to move your appeal to the Administrator Noticeboard. eshetalk 22:12, 19 May 2013 (GMT)
No, you'll move my appeal to the AN regardless (please read the policy). The first appeal made by any blocked account will always be put to a community discussion. But that's beside the point. As I have stated elsewhere before, I have been dealing with a broken hand for months. That's impeded my ability to edit the way I do (a whole bunch of edits over a short period of time). It's getting better due to physical therapy, but it's still rough. I have been editing things that require little time (votes, nominations etc.) because those are easier for me. The only issue I have brought up recently is The Silencer issues (which you still have failed to address).
So, no, I don't see how I have just stirred up drama over the last few months. I made a few comments about the colors of some templates, let you know about an issue on the main page, organized Template:Skyrim Powers, opposed Chezburger's nomination that was withdrawn, opposed a nomination that was also opposed by the community, brought up a possible meat puppet issues to Dwarfmp, which turned out to be true, and the Silencer issue (which again, the administrators have outright ignored).
So, how have I done little but stir up drama? elliot (talk) 22:33, 19 May 2013 (GMT)
I have moved your appeal to the AN per the blocking policy. --Ad intellige (talk) 23:13, 19 May 2013 (GMT)
Thank you. elliot (talk) 23:16, 19 May 2013 (GMT)
Comment by Xyzzy

I'm not making any judgment about guilt or innocence, but it seems to me that an editor's edit count is not relevant when it comes to a question of disciplinary action. Any decision should be based solely on violations of site policies, and discussions should focus on that. --Xyzzy Talk 02:49, 20 May 2013 (GMT)

I'm not exactly sure of your point. I never stated that my edit count should disqualify me from any disciplinary action. I mentioned the number of my edits in a time frame in order to disprove the accusation of having done little. And I mentioned what I had done recently to prove that I had created no such drama. I don't see where I tried to do what you are saying. elliot (talk) 04:03, 20 May 2013 (GMT)
It seems to me that it wasn't really your place to even mention the issue of Silencer's block, much less ask that his rights be removed. You're not an admin. If the admins have concerns about Silencer creating more work for them, it's for them to take it up with him, not you. Also, ask yourself: at each step of bringing up my concern, what did I do to make this as cordial and polite as ratchet down the situation rather than ratcheting it up?
He asked you to take up your issue with an admin and to stop harassing him. You ratcheted up by replying on his page, which would be considered continuing the harassment. Even if you didn't intend your post as harassing, it was taken that way, which means you need to take extra care not to further that perception. Replying a second time, with a snide comment no less, was really pushing it. Obviously, you then went on IRC. I don't often see you on IRC any more, so it's not unreasonable to believe that you might have initiated that conversation. If you did, were you polite about it, or did you challenge him and taunt him like you did on his talk page? Regardless of who initiated the conversation, after it was over, your first action was not to take a breather or complain privately to an admin and ask that someone have a word with Silencer; instead, you posted a public call for removal of all his rights. Again, ratcheting things up.
Are there issues on Silencer's side of things? Perhaps there are, perhaps there aren't. It sounds to me like an admin has probably already spoken with him. While I certainly think we want to avoid a perception of favouritism or elitism, it's also not unreasonable to say "Hey, things got heated, maybe we both needed to just take a step back."
In the end, what matters in a block appeal is your actions, and what you intend to do to be productive in the future and avoid recurrences of situations like this. What anyone else did is for other discussions, if they're needed at all. Robin Hood  (talk) 05:05, 20 May 2013 (GMT)
I'm not trying to increase tension here, but I would just like to mention that the policy says *should* only do it when an admin is not available, not *must* only do it when an admin is unavailable. It isn't a requirement, it is a suggestion so that the blocker doesn't wait their own personal time. At least that's how I would read the policy. Jeancey (talk) 05:19, 20 May 2013 (GMT)
Relevant to this discussion is Elliot's last block appeal and the terms he agreed to as part of reducing that block. Note especially Krusty's comment dated 5 December 2011: "if I see (or hear about) another misstep [...] you will be facing an indefinite block," Elliot acceptance of the terms, the condition of zero tolerance for impoliteness from Elliot, and that the zero tolerance policy has remained in effect since then, as there has been no discussion on the AN to lift it. Any violation of the zero tolerance policy warrants a block of at least six months.
So, was Elliot impolite here? He decided to "advise" Silencer on Silencer's talk page that he should be more careful when blocking, evidently adopting an interpretation of the blocking policy that no one else shares, notably the admins (if eshe's comments on the AN can be construed as relaying a consensus among them). I requested clarification on the matter, but that was just my polite way of asking someone to tell Elliot he was mistaken.
Silencer requested immediately that he not be harassed. Instead of leaving him alone and contacting an administrator about his concerns, Elliot decided to respond. He initiated the discussion saying that Silencer might have broken policy, but in his subsequent responses to Silencer, he instead stated that Silencer "broke policy", and derided Silencer's performance as a blocker. Silencer, having made his desire to be left alone clear, made a comment in a tangentially related concern on IRC, and Elliot decided to respond with a comment which, in my opinion, can only be characterized as snide. Silencer reiterated his desire for an interaction ban (his exact words being "piss off"), and Elliot apparently began PMing Silencer. Silencer sought an interaction ban, and Elliot decided that Silencer's exercise of his blocking privileges and requests to be left alone warranted the removal of all his special rights.
So here we are. I stand by the comments I made in Elliot's last block appeal. Regardless of whether Elliot was engaging in a "hate campaign" against Silencer, it was impolite of him not to respect Silencer's requests to be left alone. In accordance with Elliot's probationary status, that calls for a block of at least six months. I was a little surprised when the block was indefinite, but I presume Eshe consulted with other admins before making the block. If they don't want to go through all this again in the future (and we would be), then I can understand that desire. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 05:40, 20 May 2013 (GMT)
Indeed; Elliot has demonstrated quite clearly to us that he is not capable of complying with the terms that were put in place at the time of his last block. As I stated before, Elliot has been given numerous chances to correct his behavior in the past, and he has consistently failed to do so. Any other user would have been banned indefinitely for behaving this way a long time ago. I see nothing in Elliot's behavior prior to or immediately following this ban to suggest that allowing him to continue to edit in the future would result in anything but more of the same. eshetalk 11:52, 20 May 2013 (GMT)
Well, if elliot DID agree to a zero tolerance policy on impoliteness at risk of a permaban, then a permaban is probably appropriate for his failure to follow said policy. He may have made a bunch of contributions to the site in the past, but just like with rpeh, that doesn't excuse him from facing the same discipline as everyone else when he decides to break the rules repeatedly. I'm not trying to step on any toes here, just stating the logical course of action. ThuumofReason (talk) 11:56, 20 May 2013 (GMT)

() Rpeh was only blocked for 3 months, so I can definitely see how me being indefinitely blocked is completely fair! The main reason I was pissed, and still remain pissed, is that another user called another user a cunt multiple times, a bastard, a asstwat (whatever that is), and many other things. Yet I AM the one who gets blocked? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm getting blocked because (in the voice of a five year old) I was not nice? It's astounding how much favoritism and hypocrisy is on display here. You know, here in the states we have this thing called the eighth amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." Rpeh was blocked multiple times because he personally attacked people, Silencer wasn't even blocked at all, and the moment I mention something to another user, I get accused of harassment, hate, attacking, impoliteness, and 'being mean'. It's ridiculous. I never personally attacked him, and you know, as I feel I should remind every single one of you who loves to forget rules when they are pertinent: personal attacks are ground for an immediate block. And those rules apply to the IRC, private discussion or not. So can someone please tell me why that is going out the window? Eshe? Can you tell me why you have yet AGAIN chosen to make up your own rulebook? And why was the block indefinite when Nephele explicitly outlined 6 months? Would you not call this excessive and unnecessary? I'm not vandalizing the site. So tell me again why you believe this is necessary.

And RH, another user actually brought it up, at which point Silencer made a smartass/insulting comment directly at me. I made one back, and Krusty threatened to block me! Not Silencer... ME. Is this trend picking up in anyone's brains? Silencer then made yet another comment, and Krusty asked that I take it to the wiki. I said that I would, yet he still blocked me. Again, is anyone picking up on the pattern?

And Eshe, try actually using logic in your reply this time rather than holier-than-thou elitism. Thanks. elliot (talk) 17:32, 20 May 2013 (GMT)

Elliot, you will not remove other users' comments from this section. This appeal process was moved to your talk page for your own convenience, not to allow you to delete comments you may not like.
That said, I still have heard nothing from you regarding my own concerns and that of the community: why should you be allowed to continue to edit? Why do you need to be allowed to edit, not just use, UESPWiki? Why should you be given more chances to contribute productively, when every chance so far has turned sour? eshetalk 17:51, 20 May 2013 (GMT)
I understand that you must feel upset, elliot, but my honest and sincere advice to you is not to let that show in your comments. When you respond angrily rather than calmly, it highlights the reasons you were blocked in the first place, and it makes it seem like you are wasting the only chance you have to explain yourself and earn some type of respite. This is obviously a very emotional issue for you, but that just makes it that much more essential that you respond politely and calmly, because when your responses are angry, people are more likely to dismiss what you're saying. At this point, your best shot at earning a commuted sentence, so to speak, is to answer Eshe's concerns and ignore everything else that other users say. If you do not feel that you can do that, then you might end up being forced to accept a permanent ban from editing. I've made my opinions known, so I have nothing else to contribute to this discussion. ThuumofReason (talk) 18:20, 20 May 2013 (GMT)
Considering it's on my talk page, policy is that I can remove comments from my talk page whether the conversation is held here for my convenience or not (but there you go again making up rules, eshe). If you don't like it, then hold the conversation elsewhere. Okay?
..."when every chance so far has turned sour?"
Are you rewriting history again? I mean, seriously? How do you sleep at night? After the last time I was blocked (and after every time before that), I had edited substantially when the block expired. And if you mean sour by "souring almost a year and a half later after the last block", then I don't see how I can fight that one! No one needs to edit, though. But considering what I have given to the site, I would assume I would be given the benefit of the doubt. Like I said, rpeh was blocked (for the third or so time) for only three months. But you find it necessary for indefinite? Really?
Can I get an administrator who isn't biased to reevaluate the actions of eshe and comment on whether or not an indefinite block is actually appropriate? (And by unbiased, I mean someone besides Krusty. I would prefer Daveh, though, who I just emailed.) elliot (talk) 21:30, 20 May 2013 (GMT)

() Per UESPWiki policy, this appeal has been left open for discussion for one full week and, as it seems no one else is inclined to comment, will now be closed.

This marks the fifth block placed on this account for intimidation, harassment, and abuse of other editors both on UESPWiki and the #uespwiki IRC channel. The last ban on this account was lifted because you agreed to adhere to a strict one-revert rule and a "zero-tolerance policy on impoliteness - not just personal attacks." You agreed to "slow down the editing, reign in any type of sarcasm, reign in any off the wall comments, and focus on bettering the wiki." You agreed to "be friendly and have fun," "respect the work of other editors," and to make apologies when offense is given. You agreed to comply with the conditions put in place at the time of that discussion with the understanding that any violation of those conditions would result in an extended, possibly permanent ban.

However, in the last few months, you have returned to the same belligerent, hostile behavior that earned you four previous blocks. You made a pair of rude comments to Alphabetface in response to what was clearly a good faith edit. Although you did ultimately change your vote, your comments on The Silencer's patroller nomination ([1], [2], [3]) were disrespectful, inflammatory, and altogether unhelpful. You made unnecessarily snide comments to Psylocke and to me on her talk page. You were condescending and rude to The Silencer over what is essentially a non-issue. When he requested that you give him space, you harassed and needled him on #uespwiki and in a private IRC message, and even went so far as to request that his rights be removed, as if it were appropriate for you to be the one to request such a serious punishment for the person you provoked. Yes, The Silencer used bad language toward you; it has been discussed with him and he has been advised on how to deal with such situations in the future (as you were, the first time the community had such a problem with you). However, you have a history littered with warnings and blocks for poor etiquette, and The Silencer does not. Just because you didn't swear at him doesn't mean you weren't taunting, belittling, and insulting him, which was only made worse by the fact that you initiated the situation in the first place.

We have been patient and lenient with you, and several people have tried on several occasions to counsel you and remind you to keep your temper. Despite our efforts and the many chances you have been given, however, it is clear that your attitude toward others remains unchanged. You have consistently demonstrated your lack of respect for the editors of this community, and it is clear that the community no longer wishes to tolerate (the disruptions you cause by lashing out at other users) your abusive, disruptive behavior. This ban will be left in place per the result of this appeal process. The appeal policy states that further appeals will not be permitted "unless the new appeal provides substantial new information, such as concrete examples of proposed contributions to the wiki"; however, since you have been banned not for vandalism but for repeatedly ignoring UESPWiki's etiquette policy, I would advise you to be prepared to demonstrate a significant, prolonged, and consistent improvement in behavior should you intend to make another appeal against this block. eshetalk 14:28, 27 May 2013 (GMT)

Wow, you're really struggling to find evidence of a reason for the block after you had made it. How long did it take you to make up this bullshit this time? This is beyond embarrassing for you, and it removes any credibility you had left in my eyes. The comments I made to ABCface (let's ignore that they were by no means rude; had they been I would have been warned/blocked for those) were over a year ago! Are you really that desperate? And Silencer's first patroller nomination? You opposed it for the same reason!!! And my comments on that nomination were blunt, but they weren't rude. The comments I made to Psylocke were a little snarky, but you're a child if you find issue with those (so that must mean you...).
And again with Silencer. You weren't in the IRC. You fail to realize (for the fourth time is it?) that he was the one who made a rude comment to me (and I had said nothing up until that point), and then continued to personally attack me. Something, yet again, you have ignored because it would minimize any credibility you're little witch hunt here has. So again, I demand that you provide a good reason as to why your block should stand. Krusty has blocked users for no reason, has made smart ass and dick-headed comments many times before, yet he has barely a scratch. So can you explain that one? Or is it that he's just another one of your cronies like Silencer? I mean, the hypocrisy here is unfathomable. Nephele made no implications towards an infinite ban, and you are no Nephele. You have continued to move the goals posts each time I have invalidated one of your bogus claims, and you have failed to acknowledge your errors in doing so (you just ignore them and change your position on a drop of a hat). Your initial evidence was sketchy at best, which I summarily destroyed (read a few lines up if you forgot). You ignored most of them the first time around, and you have yet to comment on them since. And now, you want me to be "prepared to demonstrate a significant, prolonged, and consistent improvement in behavior"... LOL It's a little hard to do that (not that I have any inclination to even do so) when I'm infinitely blocked, is it not? Did you think that one through either? Or are you just going to reply here and change your mind again? This is comical. You are comical.
I still want Daveh to weigh in on this witch hunt, since the other editors are apparently incapable of doing so. elliot (talk) 06:11, 28 May 2013 (GMT)
Elliot. Just ignoring everyone else's comments for a moment, I believe that your statements here are the exact thing that was the problem previously. There are ways to respond to what has been said without calling people people children, smart asses and dick-heads. THAT is the issue, that you respond to criticism (be it warranted or not) with attacks. Even if Silencer made the first move, you attacked back. I believe that the previous bans were for the same reason, and until you can respond to such attacks with more care, I don't see this ending up any other way. I'm not saying that everyone else is guiltless in this situation, but you did respond inappropriately to their comments. Remember, two wrongs do not make a right (though three rights make a left). Jeancey (talk) 07:52, 28 May 2013 (GMT)
Jeancey is right; your attitude throughout this appeal process is exactly the kind of thing you were blocked for in the past, and exactly the reason this block has been left in place. In any case, this appeal has been closed. If you continue to use your talk page privileges to abuse other editors, your ban will be modified accordingly. eshetalk 11:25, 28 May 2013 (GMT)
As a fairly new editor, I haven't been around to see any previous issues with Elliot. As a neutral member of the UESP community, Jeancey is absolutely right: Just because someone hits you first doesn't make it okay to hit back. This is a lesson I learned as a child (and you are calling others a child...that doesn't really help your cause).
Also, as I understand it, nothing on the Internet is ever truly deleted. If that is the case, wouldn't there be archives of evidence either supporting or disproving Eshe's claims? I would certainly believe hard evidence over the word of an accuser/accused any day. Until then, we are forced to look at witness accounts, which unfortunately for you, Elliot, is overwhelmingly against you.--WoahBro (talk) 14:33, 28 May 2013 (GMT)

() Oh eshe. What did I say last time? "You have continued to move the goals posts each time I have invalidated one of your bogus claims, and you have failed to acknowledge your errors in doing so (you just ignore them and change your position on a drop of a hat)." Now you're saying my responses here are what's kept me blocked... I thought it was that mountain of "evidence" you posted above? You expect me to come up with some response on the block, but you have changed your position each and every time you have posted here. How is that fair to me? elliot (talk) 01:46, 29 May 2013 (GMT)

While some of the edits pointed to could be assumed to be good faith edits that were perhaps a bit blunt, many can not. As you know, Dave generally stays hands-off in decisions like these except in the most extreme cases. That's why the site has admins. The fact that no other admin has commented in support of unblocking suggests to me that they don't disagree with the block. Finally, your continued harassment and personal attacks of other users in your unblock request are, in fact, grounds for blocking talk page access as well, and I would suggest that this be done by an uninvolved admin. Robin Hood  (talk) 02:26, 29 May 2013 (GMT)
Personal attacks? elliot (talk) 02:55, 29 May 2013 (GMT)
I had been refraining from this discussion for a while, but I suppose I ought to say my bit. Having interacted with Elliot after another disastrous episode, Chezburgar's failed patroller nomination, I have a pretty good understanding of what's going on. After a prolonged, four hour discussion, I tried picking his brain to understand his motivations, to see if there was any common ground that could lead to a consensus. Instead, I found that he is either so severely lacking in social skills that he simply cannot comprehend how his statements come across as offensive, or he chooses to phrase them so. Just look at the above comments, Elliot. Every single person there, even many neutral people, are saying that your language is coming across in an offensive way. This is not the first time you have interacted with others this way, and I'm certain it won't be the last. I know that this discussion is futile, as was my previous discussion with you, since no matter what we tell you, you will refuse to accept that you're in any way at fault. There are only two outcomes to this, Elliot. One, you realize that you will not win this argument, and gracefully leave the wiki. Two, you continue making statements that you know come across as offensive and you get banned for harassment. The choice is yours. • JAT 07:26, 29 May 2013 (GMT)
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