Lore talk:Daedric Princes

SanguineEdit

If you follow the link to the Daggerfall artifacts page (here), under the description of Sanguine, it says she. Is that accidental there, or is the portly man really a she? Somercy 12:37, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Many of the Daedric Princes have indeterminate gender, or gender that changes from one instance to the next. They don't reproduce in the same way that we do, so gender is less relevant when referring to them. The fact that some choose to appear male and some choose to appear female is just to make it easier for our mortal minds to comprehend them. Some, like Hermaeus Mora or Peryite, don't even bother trying to look humanoid... --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 13:09, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Mkay, thanks. I was trying to make analogy to Neil Gaiman's Endless, and couldn't decide who was Desire. Somercy 12:15, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Daedric Kings/Queens?Edit

Well Daedric Princes exist, so why are there no Kings or Queens? — Unsigned comment by 71.232.85.127 (talk) at 17:59 on 17 April 2007

Because 'Daedric King' doesn't sound as cool as 'Daedric Prince'.

If you are looking for a professional response, I have none. Sorry. 77BeTa77 11:36, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Look up the wikipedia article 'Princes as rulers.' It doesn't refer to gender or monarchy and is correct term. — Unsigned comment by 24.31.156.165 (talk) at 23:15 on 25 July 2008

Not to mention, they were all born to Anu and Padomay. — Unsigned comment by 213.107.235.247 (talk) at 14:11 on 11 July 2011

Daedric childrenEdit

[[Oblivion:|Oblivion:]][[Lore:|Tamriel:]]Daedra princes can have and have rape or had children with mortal races correct well what about Daedra princes having children with each other whom also have a small role in both thier parents spheres ex. Azura and Hircine becoming Daughter of the rose and the Huntess/Huntsman. Is it even Possible? — Unsigned comment by 74.32.26.190 (talk) at 02:05 on 26 September 2007

First - Daedra do not reproduce in the way we know it. They have no gender, and only appear male or female to mortal eyes by their own choosing. (Some change from one to the other depending on the situation.) Second - there is to my knowledge nothing in all of the lore to suggest that any Daedric prince has ever produced offspring. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, I mean, we don't know everything there is to know about them. But one would think that if it were possible, there would be stories of it having happened before, and these do not exist as far as I know. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 22:25, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

Didn't Molag Bal rape Vivec and produce demonspawn in Molag Amur? — Unsigned comment by 71.28.231.235 (talk) at 13:33 on 2 January 2008

Seeing as Molag Bal is the King of Rape, this is hardly surprising. --Twentyfists 19:24, 27 February 2008 (EST)

Daedric Princes do not have children by each other. However, the Daedra have had children by mortals. In the Shivering Isles, in the book 16 Accords of Madness, v. XII, Malacath kills a child he had by an Orc female. --Twentyfists 15:28, 12 February 2008 (EST)

I think I remember that Molag Bal also raped a "mortal woman" and she gave birth to the vampires or something. All I know is that they CAN reproduce, but they can shape-shift, changing how and if they can reproduce. I also want to add that the ones shown ingame, normally have pants on...so what are they hiding from us... --Saint Grinch 01:34, 19 February 2010

The whole idea of a god raping a mortal woman seems to be a funny greek reference to me...

The god king "Zeus" has many stories, one of which is where he found a follower of Artemis, and "Raped" her supposedly (Although the story has variations, they are all pretty much rape.) at which point artemis found out she as pregnant and shunned her (Being that artemis is a god of chastity) — Unsigned comment by 98.144.68.76 (talk) at 06:00 on 3 July 2010

(←) Molag Bal also has a child in Morrowind named Molag Grunda. He explicitly calls her his daughter and seems very protective of her, in his own evil, twisted, sadistic way. Torturing her for having a 'lowly atronach' for a boyfriend and all. The fact that Molag Grunda was in a relationship with another daedra in the first place seems to imply intercourse between daedra is possible, and therefor may imply procreation. Many Princes probably have children, some just more than others, Molag Bal and Sanguine being good bets for example. — Unsigned comment by 24.125.248.155 (talk) on 28 March 2012

Ebonarm, the God of WarEdit

Why haven't the developers of the Elder Scrolls not given this daedric prince an effective role or appearance - I think he would be a real bad ass daedric prince or since he is after the god of war, he maybe the lord of the Redguards/Akaviri inhabitants since they are the most powerfull and gifted warrior race and are not related to the other men races. — Unsigned comment by 86.145.213.15 (talk) at 22:44 on 12 February 2008

I'm pretty sure Ebonarm isn't a Daedric Prince, as he is not mentioned in any other book that talks about Daedric Princes. He might be a manifestation of a god, like Wulf. --Twentyfists 16:34, 15 February 2008 (EST)

They should have make the realm of Ebonarm as the next major expansion for Oblivion. That would be awesome.

I don't know why but everytime i think of him all i can picture is a Tall Viking guy with a long beard, big muscles, a Warhammer, viking helmet and to top it off an Irish accent — Unsigned comment by Aidan (talk • contribs) at 01:04 on 29 April 2008

I'm sorry but I think Ebonarm sounds like a thouroghly dull guy- especially if he's some viking guy- really, really unimaginative and DULL. Glad he's been dropped since Daggerfall.--92.41.149.166 12:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I would like another reappearance of Hircine, but that's just me. And I always pictured Ebonarm as a big dude in a kinda Ebony armor and a big ax. --Saint Grinch 01:54, 19 February 2010

ebonarm is canon, and he is listed as the enemies of some of the deadric princes so why does he not have a section of his own? — Unsigned comment by 72.26.144.152 (talk) at 07:15 on 12 January 2013‎

A section where? He isn't a Daedric Prince, he doesn't need a section on this page. —Legoless (talk) 19:01, 12 January 2013 (GMT)

Jyggalag and PeryiteEdit

Both these Deadric Princes seem to be concerned with Order. Obviously Jyggalag is the true Prince of Order, but what is Peryite the prince of? The article says supposedly pestilence, but everything I've seen in-game about him and online suggests he and his followers are much more concerned about things being neat and orderly than they are about pestilence. Anyone know what the deal is with this? Also, I have to say that I was disappointed that the plane of Oblivion I was transported to for Peryite's Shrine quest was all fire and brimstone like Mehrunes Dagon's plane. I was looking forward to seeing what Peryites plane looked like, just as you get to see what Sheogorath's plane of Oblivion looks like in the Shivering Isles expansion and a bit of a glimpse into Jyggalag's when he takes land on the Isles. I suppose I can't get angry at the devs for being lazy though, as this game must have taken an unholy amount of work to complete that most other game devs never put in to their projects. --Mole126^Talk 06:48, 26 February 2008

Peryite is a commander of lesser beings so maybe he likes to have thing in order like Jyggalag,Peryites realm in Oblivion is probably just where his followers sent their souls by mistake instead of in the pressence of Peryite like they had hoped — Unsigned comment by 68.144.228.97 (talk) at 02:24 on 1 May 2008

The game identifies the area you are sent to in the quest as "Peryite's Realm," and Peryite himself says that they were trapped in his realm, so it is more likely that the developers simply did not make Peryite's any different from a generic plain of Oblivion, which is based off of Mehrunes Dagon's Badlands. They shouldn't be blamed for this, however, considering the amount of work that had been put into the game. --Twentyfists 15:12, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

Peryite's sphere is given as the ordering of the lower ranks of Oblivion. I take it to be that Peryite is the Prince of leadership, discipline and hierarchy while Jyggalag is the Prince of logic and order. Or perhaps Peryite replaced Jyggalag when Sheogorath took over. 68.166.67.42 18:11, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

Well from what i could gather, basically peryite is pestilince, and order, but the types of order are different between peryite and jyggalag, peryite's kind of order is just things like alphabetical order for a bookshelf, and rank, like the kynreeve are much weaker than valkyn, so valkyn would be given a higher rank, and the princes are much more powerful, so they are above the valkyn, kind of a proper order guess you could say his order is a stairway, whereas jyggalag is just very rigid, do this do that, supreme overlord, everything is the same kind of order, so his order would be like a flat surface, with him standing on any and all bumps in that surface... also i understand why you all really wish jyggalag was a real deadric prince, but the fact he is a DLC prince, he was too non-canon they couldnt make him real, — Unsigned comment by 174.27.206.232 (talk) at 22:56 on 18 November 2011

Correction: Jyggalag is a real Daedric Prince. He's been mentioned in the Lore since Daggerfall, in the book On Oblivion, where his name appears in a list of Daedric Princes. Although his title, sphere, etc. weren't given until Shivering Isles, Jyggalag is still part of the Elder Scrolls canon. Bauglir100 22:05, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Deadric QuestsEdit

I was reading through the page, and I noticed that some of the Princes had a short description of their quests given. However, others did not. Wouldn't it make sense to either have all of them with a brief description, or none? Darkle 18:32, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

good ones ?Edit

who are the good daderic princes excatly im guessing azura is one but are there any other "good" ones — Unsigned comment by Ryan6329 (talk • contribs) at 23:09 on 25 July 2008

This is taken from Darkest Darkness "The Good Daedra are Boethiah, Azura and Melphala... The Bad Deadra are Mehrunes Dagon, Malacath, Sheogorath and Molag Bal" (Theres alot of stuff between those two paragraphs, mostly about which Daedric Prince controls what demons etc.) I'm assuming the rest are neutral or can be both good and evil(eg. Jyggalag is the Prince of Order, which people usually associate with good, but evil things can also have order). Another theory is that the others are neither good or evil in normal terms, but use mortals to accomplich their own personnal needs. (eg. Clavius Vile, who assisted both Jagar Tharn in Arena and the player in later games) — Unsigned comment by 94.192.120.78 (talk) at 19:44 on 20 May 2009

Meridia can also be considered good, as she hates all forms of undead.— Unsigned comment by 173.65.229.200 (talk) at 18:58 on 24 February 2013

Note that Darkest Darkness is written from a Dunmer point of view. Malacath and Sheogorath would be seen as closer to neutral by most other races (Malacath being the patron of Orsimer, they obviously see him in a positive light) while Boethiah and Mephala both encourage murder, deception and betrayal and are are therefore seen as evil by most other races. Daedric Princes who are less malevolent include Meridia and perhaps Hircine and a few others like the afore mentioned Azura. Azura and Meridia are perhaps the closest to true "good" as Daedric Princes get. -- El Payaso Malo 108.240.39.32 12:54, 8 August 2013 (GMT)

There are clearly no "good daedra". Azura can lie and manipulate, or be fanatic, and it is utterly arrogant. Meridia can be extremely fanatic and also lies and can be very cruel. No daedra has any sphere which can be called 'morally good', at least not from a general Humanist perspective. Which brings the question of... why not. I think that the loremasters exaggerate on this, and it would be extremely interesting to see an anti-pattern "Prince of Happiness", for example (no madness nor debauchery but true happiness). Or of Prosperity, or of Peace. I think that it would shock and amuse players much more than the "demon number one million" they come up with next. Evil guys are becoming boring, to say the least, and not quite credible (so many thousands of cultists fighting to death for doom, c'mon...). Where would be the threat with a Prince of Prosperity? Very simple: the common people, the real politicians, the envious, the cynical, the egoists. What about the player WANTING the next daedic "invasion" because it is GOOD, and having to confront kings and lord, merchant princes and tyrants defending the status quo? For example: the Prince of Prosperity plans something which would allow better trade for everybody. Many people would oppose! --87.184.174.115 09:36, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

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Night Mother/ Mephala?Edit

"As a reaction to this the Dark Brotherhood was formed, still worshiping and being led by the mysterious Night Mother, better known to Tamriel as the Daedric god Mephala."

Where is this from? Is it saying that the Night Mother from Oblivion isn't the original Night Mother or that it's Mephala in disguise? 66.167.234.101 01:44, 4 March 2009 (EST)

From what I just heard, it sounds like Mephala is just another name for the Night Mother. --Saint Grinch 02:07, 19 February 2010

Unmentioned Daedric princesEdit

There are a few daedric prince thats names are not mentioned in the like one of the fighters guild you have to do a quest to help some lady to get into the daedric shrine but it never mentions the name of thet daedric prince and there is supposed to be sixteen daedric princes right — Unsigned comment by 66.194.217.222 (talk) on 23 June 2009

There are sixteen Princes... (17 are mentioned because Jyggalag and Sheogorath are the same). I don't understand what you are getting at. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 15:04, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

If I remember rightly, the shrine you speak of is dedicated to a known daedric prince. I THINK it is either Merunes Dagon, or Malacath...--64.35.208.8 03:34, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

There's a shrine for Merunes Dagon? I looked for one and the closest I could find was the Mythic Dawn place. --Saint Grinch 02:10, 19 February 2010

The shrine of the Unmentioned Daedric Prince was Molag Bal — Unsigned comment by 99.179.48.83 (talk) at 00:56 on 14 July 2011 (GMT)

VandailismEdit

Sorry if I'm being a bother but I see someone has written "yfkbaqyn zgrqywfi hjvllovp" on the page, but for whatever reason I can't seem to find it once I go to the discussion. After my first attempt I assumed that it had been reverted and my computer simply hadn't cleared it yet so I preformed a hard refresh (ctrl-f5). This has done nothing to banish the gibberish and I believe it is my own sheer incompetance at locating the gibberish over the edit screen that is at fault. So what I'm saying is, can someone competant remove the gibberish. — Unsigned comment by 69.158.153.9 (talk) on August 11, 2009 at 15:57

I think you're seeing this edit. As you can see from the second edit on that page, it has been reverted. Also, if you click on "Newer edit," you'll see that the page has been protected until August 30. -Dlarsh^{(Talk,Contribs)} 22:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

TemplatesEdit

I noticed when i was trying to edit Namira's aritcle (just for correcting some grammer), it had a preset lore template. Where are these templates stored at? Jplatinum16 19:21, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

You can see the location of the transcluded article between the double accolades ("{{" and "}}"). In this case it would be Lore:Namira. That has the actual content which you can see here as well. --Timenn-<talk> 11:14, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

AzuraEdit

She is a female. Therefore should she not be a Daedric Princess?? Same with any other female Daedra (Night Mother, maybe??) — Unsigned comment by Odessus (talk • contribs) at 18:23 on 3 December 2010

Azura is not a female, per se. All of the Daedric Princes are genderless, as Divine entities. They can take any form they wish. And the Night Mother isn't really a Prince... --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 18:29, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

In any case, shouldn't we call them according to the gender they appear as in terms of their title? Odessus 18:54, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Although Daedric Princes may assume the form of a female, they have no inherent gender, and are all referred to as Princes. ie. Daedric Prince Azura 208.54.14.56 19:19, 14 February 2011 (UTC)StaticNation 11:16, 14 February 2011 (PST)

He/She?Edit

How far are we taking the "male mandate" when it comes to Daedric Princes? Since we're referring to them all as males given their sometimes nebulous sexuality, should all the pages use "he," even on the pages of Princes whose gender is always female, such as Azura? Minor Edits 05:06, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I vote for saying that they are male in all cases. Anything else requires a lot of arguing on what people believe lore wise is the correct gender. Even the some Daedra have many female characteristics, it is easier to just say they are all male than to engage in one of the many related arguments involved with the Daedric Princes gender (i.e. "They can't have a gender!" "X is really female!" "No Y is really Female, not X!"). There is no real answer to these questions, and in my experiences they are most commonly referred to as being male. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 05:25, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

This has been discussed somewhere else (can't remember where) with no clear answer, because there IS no clear answer. The references are contradictory, with some saying they should all be called male, and others blatantly contradicting that. See this, for instance. The best solution is probably to let people use whatever word they want - that's pretty much what Bethesda has done. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:44, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I still hold firm in my belief that the obviously feminine Daedra should be referred to as "she". Gender seems to bear some kind of meaning to the Daedra - for example, the Golden Saints and Dark Seducers consider their males to be lower in rank to the females. If the only argument for calling them "he" is the fact that immortal shape-shifting spirits are hard to put a definitive gender on, we might as well go and call them all "it"s so as not to offend any feminist readers. Legoless 22:30, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

In response to Legoless, I would actually have to say that Saints and Seducers are a whole other story. Seeing as they are considered Lesser Daedra, the rules of the Princes do not necessarily apply to them. The Princes can almost be considered Gods. Their servants, not so much. Gods can assume any form, but saying that some are male and others female just seems a little complicated; then again, I suppose that some would think it the other way around. Personally, I agree with AKB. My feeling is that since there are far more male than female Princes, we may as well just keep gender references consistant.--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 22:46, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Singling out your "Lesser Daedra" point: all Daedra are the same age - immortal. For whatever reasons (mortal worship, power, etc.) some of the Daedric spirits grew in power and influence. So there's no distinct line between a Prince and a Lesser Daedra. All Daedra can assume any form they want, not just the Princes. It is only clan ranks that prevent them from choosing certain features (as my own possibly wrong example, all Xivilai spirits must remain Xivilai-looking because they are part of Clan Xivilai). Legoless 22:53, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I suppose I didn't make myself quite clear; my bad. What I mean by "Lesser Daedra" is exactly what you said: those limited by the castes and ranks. Seeing as the Princes are at the top of the "pecking order", per se, they can take whatever form they want at will. But I did say here that if the community disagreed with me than I would leave well enough alone. So if you guys think it unfeasable, pointless, or unnecessary, then I have absolutely no problem moving on to something else.--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 23:02, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I vote for saying they are "it" everywhere. --87.184.174.115 09:36, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

This topic is (now) unrelated to the content of the article, and more suited to the forums. Please feel free to continue the discussion there. This topic is now closed.

Artifact ImagesEdit

With the release of Skyrim, shouldn't all the artifact images on the articles about Daedric Princes be replaced with their newest counterparts from Skyrim? I've seen them being removed. -- kertaw48 13:40, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I addressed the issue in part here. Honestly, I'd prefer to remove all artifact images from the Daedric Prince pages in favour of adding them to the separate artifact pages. Updating the old images is fine with me if the artifact doesn't have its own page yet, but adding all the artifact images to the Prince's page is excessive. —Legoless 13:49, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, seeing from the absence of Morrowind images about those same artifacts I just assumed the newest images were being used, since putting all the images would make that gallery have more images about the artifacts than the Daedra in question. Still, at least one image of the artifact directly related to the Daedra should stay, in my opinion. And preferably the newest one. -- kertaw48 14:35, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Well if the reward for the deadric quest is the same as in oblivion/morrowind then they should update the image. eg changing the imae of the wabbajack to the "newer" wabbajack but if it is a different deadric artifact reward its not so much of a issue as they are both still deadric artifacts. Remember Though! You can get separate game pages for the artifact and its new effects! E.g Skyrim:Wabbajack and Oblivion:Wabbajack — Unsigned comment by 81.103.23.153 (talk) at 17:22 on 28 July 2012

"In all, there are 16 known Princes, including one which assumed the role of two."Edit

So is that 16 appearing to be 17 or 15 appearing to be 16? It's not clear. --Irrevenant (talk) 00:47, 16 December 2012 (GMT)

It's 16 appearing to be 17, as Sheogorath and Jyggalag are (were?) the same. Whether that is still accurate following the events of Shivering Isles though, where Jyggalag is freed from his curse and the Champion becomes Sheogorath, I don't know. Perhaps we should change it just to say "there are 17 known Princes." --Enodoc (talk) 13:30, 17 December 2012 (GMT)

Daedric princes dont have genders.Edit

Daedric Princes appear how they want to. azura always appears as female and boethiah always appears as a male because they want it. and hermaeus mora appears as a mass of tentacles. I think all daedric princes still have a true form but to mortals they can appear anyway they want to. the fourhanded demon is the true form of mehrunes dagon for example. Daedric Princes dont have genders. thats why even azura and meridia are called princes. — Unsigned comment by 84.250.44.170 (talk)

And your point is? This is clearly stated in the article - fourth sentence in the first paragraph in fact: "Although Daedric Princes may assume the form of a female, they have no inherent gender, so they may all sometimes be referred to as Princes". If you feel that some change needs to be made, say so, but I don't think you've said anything that isn't already on the page. TheRealLurlock (talk) 14:22, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

ImagesEdit

Is there a Reason for a complete lack of images in this article?--Ashendant (talk) 00:53, 2 May 2013 (GMT)

It could be down to them having the ability to shift their appearance. There's no real reason not to have some images, but we don't need one of each here. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 02:55, 29 May 2013 (GMT)

ReferencesEdit

Reference 8 says "Mankar Camoran's dialogue in Skyrim," but according to his Lore page he was killed in 3E 433. (Kidarias01 (talk) 21:53, 15 August 2013 (GMT))

I would assume that it is from oblivion and it's just a mistake. However, I don't have dawnguard, and I understand there are people from previous games in the Soul Carin. Could he be there? Jeancey (talk) 22:03, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

Obviously a typo. The "name" part of the template is OBMankar, and it linked to Oblivion Mankar page. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 22:31, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

Daedric Prince EmblemsEdit

Is there any objection to adding the emblems for each Daedric Prince, such as the following for Azura?[1]--F-Lambda (talk) 08:48, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! --Enodoc (talk) 09:52, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Done. Not sure if it looks better on the left or the right.... Someone else can change it if they think left looks better. --F-Lambda (talk) 01:12, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Peryite bad linkEdit

I noticed that the link to Peryite lore page actually point toward Boethia's.

i do not know how to change that. -- 2018 — Unsigned comment by 24.212.252.162 (talk) at 18:42 on 19 March 2018 (UTC)

You are quite correct in your observation. It seems to be some kind of bug. I am afraid I am not very proficient in these wiki templates and wiki markups either, so I guess we will have to wait for some of the more wiki technical competent users to help us here. —MortenOSlash (talk) 21:22, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

It seems like it it fixed now. I can not say that I understand how it was done, or who did the fix. —MortenOSlash (talk) 06:35, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

NamesEdit

would it be worth mentioning where the names came from for the princes? I heard somewhere the names for them were based on the names of the creators of elder scrolls, but I cant find anything on the internet..... DarkShadows (talk) 13:55, 8 April 2019 (GMT)

It is the names of the gods named from mostly early beta testers of TES2: Daggerfall, and it is already documented on the appropriate page, in a section of the Daggerfall Easter Eggs page, the Easter Egg page of the game the Easter Egg first appeared.—MortenOSlash (talk) 20:21, 8 April 2019 (UTC)