Skyrim talk:Mjoll the Lioness/Archive 2

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Mjoll the Lioness discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Essential

The article mentions that this NPC is essential. Is she essential only for her quest or she will remain essential even after I finish her quest? Blackjohnbird 18:04, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

I completed her quest and have her as a follower; she is still essential. -EllEzDee 05:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

That's good news! So she is an immortal follower! Blackjohnbird 15:45, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Did you make sure by trying to kill her while she's in recovery mode, alternatively checking the data directly? 95.206.1.163 10:32, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

I fireballed her quite often, a tendency to not survive this I observed in other followers seems not to be shared by her. --Ulkomaalainen 05:53, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

She has a second quest in the form of being a target for a thieves guild radiant quest. I suspect she becomes non-essential if you've completed this second quest.— Unsigned comment by 66.183.55.229 (talk) at 23:57 on 23 February 2013 (GMT)

(←) No, the thieves guild radiant quest that targets people (fishing) has a huge number of possible targets. It doesn't affect essential status of the targets. --Morrolan (talk) 15:26, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

Perhaps Mjoll was meant to be Jarl of the Rift at one point.--2.220.230.224 23:57, 30 July 2013 (GMT)

Hearthfire problem

After my wife, Mjoll the Lioness, was taken for ransom and held in Embershard mine, and after I killed the bandits and freed her:

Whatever direction she faces when the cell loads, that's the direction she will be stuck facing, she no longer fights, draws her weapon/s, but doesn't fight, doesn't take a knee when injured, isn't staggered by sprinting or shouting, nothing. It's highly annoying, and I've tried almost everything. It's like the script to keep her still in the holding cell in the mine is still firing.

I've tried clearing the mine after respawn and picking the lock to the cell instead of using the key, to no avail. I've tried clearing the entire mine of bandits again, nothing. For me, this is a game-breaker, and very much upsetting, as I do not wish to start my game over, but just may. Cannot find anything anywhere about this situation coming up for anyone else, but will continue to do everything I can think of to fix it. Mikeyy (talk) 13:26, 11 September 2012 (EDT).

I have the same issue with mjoll your not alone I will also try to fInd a solution. — Unsigned comment by 97.230.220.84 (talk) at 04:37 on 20 January 2013

Does Aerin follow in Hearthfire?

Can anyone confirm that Aerin continues to follow your wife Mjoll if you move into a customizable home? I just got Hearthfire and, after moving into the Lakeview Manor, I just realized I haven't seen Aerin around very much. Haven't had much time to do extensive testing on the subject, but it would be fantastic if they removed the Aerin bug from the game with Hearthfire, and I was wondering if anyone's noticed this. ~ melgna, 22:25 7 October 2012 (PST) 108.60.123.236

I can confirm he still moves in along with Mjoll.--Silver123 (talk) 20:23, 2 November 2012 (GMT)

Not sure about Hearthfire. I recruited her in to the Blades, and Aerin didn't come along. I'm on PC with all the unofficial patches. 50.0.25.231 07:52, 19 January 2013 (GMT)

The Unofficial Skyrim Patch adds a condition to Aerin's 'follow Mjoll' package which makes him only able to follow Mjoll while in Riften. LoftedAphid86_⚕ 08:46, 19 January 2013 (GMT)

I can confirm the issue in this dlc, also with dawnward and dragonborn. so the solucion is to make aerin "disappear" or install the unoffial patch.--anon — Unsigned comment by 190.21.198.90 (talk) at 22:28 on 2 April 2013 (GMT)

The White

Many times while having Mjoll as a follower, I've heard her use a the line "The White take you!" often in combat. While many NPC's will mention deities or other Tamrielic lore topics while fighting ("Victory or Sovngarde!", "Pray to Stendarr while you can!", "Sheogorath's madness take you!"), I cannot for the life of me figure out what this "white" Mjoll is referring to is. Is it some other lesser known deity, or another name for one of the Aedra, or something completely different? Schiffy (talk) 14:04, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

I cannot offer anything about what "the white" is, but it is standard FemaleNord combat dialogue. Strangely it isn't something that male Nords will say. The only two "the white"'s that pop up in a related way, are The White-Gold Tower, and The White River. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 14:43, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

In the french version, they translated it into "The snow take you", if that's any indication... I don't see what else they could be referring to. Elakyn (talk) 16:27, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Upon searching UESP, the first thing that turned up was Kjoric the White, but a long-since dead High King of Skyrim really wouldn't make any sense. Snow seems to make the most sense, as in leaving one in the snow to die, or leaving their body in the snow to never be found (or the Germans trying to invade Russia in the middle of winter). Schiffy (talk) 22:51, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Huh, and here I always thought it was a reference to draugr: but I thought they were saying "The wight take you!" --Morrolan (talk) 15:24, 13 April 2013 (GMT)

(←) She does not say "The 'whites' take you!" She says, "The wights take you!" A wight is just another word for faerie, used among Scots and perhaps northern cultures. — Unsigned comment by 204.235.220.30 (talk) at 04:29 on 6 July 2013

Just to clarify, the exact dialogue in game data is "The White take you!" with the "white" spelling. See here. Regardless, it isn't relevant to Mjoll's page since it's not dialogue that's unique to her anyway. — ABCface^◥ 05:52, 6 July 2013 (GMT)

Mjölnir

Are they related? She likes hammers. --194.44.219.225 09:53, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

I always found it odd that she yells "the whites take you" unitl i watched game of thrones. They call those undead "the whites" wonder if theres a connection 72.152.107.252 10:38, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

Not related as Mjoll isn't a Nordic name. For your trivia, Mjöll would be pronounced Meh+Uhl pronounced as 1 syllable. Similar to mule. A play on words by Bethseda? Sniffles (talk) 10:40, 22 March 2013 (GMT)

Mjoll is Nordic, old Nordic, translated it means fresh or powdery snow. — Unsigned comment by 173.55.58.47 (talk) at 09:28 on 31 July 2013

I believe you by "old Nordic" refers to either Norse, Old Norse or proto-Norse. Even if some academics seems to have used the term "Ancient Nordic" as an English term for the real life language of the pre-Viking era language of Scandinavia, it is rather rare. —MortenOSlash (talk) 20:30, 31 July 2013 (GMT)

Mjoll code check please?

Would somebody please be so kind as to check the code/program on this NPC? Specifically her aggression level. When she first started out as a follower she was non aggressive then after about 3 days of playing she suddenly became highly aggressive acting exactly like Lydia? Is this a possible glitch or bug? Sniffles (talk) 12:06, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

She is unaggressive, as her box states. There are also no scripts which target her specifically. It could be a bug, or it could be a quest which would target a follower. What quests did you do in that time? Vely^►t►e 14:41, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

(Thanks for the quick response!) Went to do Lost to the Ages for Zephyr, walking from Riften. My char donned Mara's amulet along the way and they talked about marriage. Then went and did Missing in Action where she was unaggressive, then Meridia's quest The Break of Dawn, (still unaggressive), then Horn of Jurgen Windcaller because we were in the area - still unaggressive, then caught the wagon down to Riften and initiated the marriage. Killing time until the marriage we went to Forelhost for Siege on the Dragon Cult then got married. Started wandering west. Did the Dragon at Lost Tongue Overlook, Crystaldrift Cave and Darklight Tower. There she was acting much more aggressive. Did Unfathomable Depths at Avanchnzel where she was storming over me at each encounter. Then off to Orphan Rock to get Nettlebane for the Blessings of Nature quest. I shot 2 mages undetected then in came Mjoll. She stormed into the area taking out 2 mages and the hagraven while my character sat in sneak mode on a rock on the side of the valley. Sniffles (talk) 23:21, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

The marriage seems to be the trigger, but I really don't see why she would suddenly change her attitude. Maybe her script as a spouse, and therefore protector, overruns her basic unagressive script? Does marriage even change agressiveness? I'll test that tomorrow. Elakyn (talk) 23:31, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

As a PS, at Darklight Tower in the final boss fight I had to reload 3 times as Mjoll would go berserk, killing Illia along with Sylvia. Post marriage seems to be a factor. Also, with her packing Staff of the Familiar, Staff of Hag's Wrath and Rahgot's Staff of the Flame Wall when she went aggressive it was... impressive. Standing in the midst of an inferno laying waste to everything around her with Grimsever. But at Orphan Rock she didn't use the staves. Just waded in with her sword.Sniffles (talk) 23:46, 11 March 2013 (GMT)

Okay so, my testing has not been very conclusive for a simple reason, my followers act exactly the same no matter their agression level. I've found absolutely no difference in behavior between Mjoll (before and after marriage), Lydia, Stenvar, Derkeethus, Brelyna and Borgakh, nor with any of the followers I've had in the past. The only thing I discovered is that the reasons needed for a follower to engage combat are pretty limited, three that I managed to identify clearly:

• get commanded to assault someone (and even then, only if they want to - yes I'm looking at you Faendal),
• get attacked by an enemy that has spotted them (they don't react to cloaks or collateral damages); they will only fight back after the first hit,
• if an enemy is currently searching for/attacking the player, within a 25 yards radius and/or in their line of sight; if any of these three conditions is not met, they might not even draw their weapon.

I've tried many different configurations: attacking the enemy first, letting the enemy attack me, letting the enemy attack them, sneaking or in plain sight, etc... Their agressiveness or fighting style doesn't change any of that, which is obviously contrary to their script which dictates that Agressive followers, just like other NPCs, should attack members of opposing factions on sight. I suppose it may have something to do with sneaking, because trying to crawl through a dungeon while your follower rushes on everyone sounds pretty challenging, but it does make for some ridiculous fight scenes. Anyway, there you have it. Elakyn (talk) 13:52, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

You did some serious work there! Okay, as far as I can tell there seems to be some additional factor involved. One example comes to mind that you could check out. When entering Karthspire (Alduin's Wall quest) I had Lydia and Serana as followers along with Esbern and Delphine. At the very beginning Esbern and Delphine charge ahead with enemies yet unseen while Lydia, aggressive, stayed back with my character. This was exactly how Mjoll acted at Orphan Rock. My char undetected in sneak mode in both instances. Why did Esbern and Delphine charge ahead? What triggers this overt aggressiveness that affects some NPCs but not others? — Unsigned comment by Sniffles (talk • contribs) at 20:40 on 12 March 2013 (GMT)

(←) I did some more tests, this time with non-active followers and other NPCs and I'm not convinced about the difference between Unaggressive (0) and Aggressive (1). Given that they have the adequate Confidence, the former will only fight back when themselves are hit or one of their friends/faction members/etc.. is under attack, never initiating combat, while the latter will attack people who are hostile on sight. This is the reason why Elrindir, Vignar and Uthgerd (all at level 1 Aggressiveness) are hostile toward you when you assault someone in Whiterun while Sinmir, potential commander of the guard, does nothing. However, regarding NPC to NPC behavior, this is almost the same thing. In a combat, the only difference is that the hostiles will always get the first hit against Unaggressive NPCs; depending on the size of each party, it can be crucial or nearly useless.

Now, regarding our problem, it seems that Aggressiveness is disregarded while a follower is active, their behaviour being the one we know. The fact that Mjoll rushed on this one occasion is either that she was attacked and you didn't notice, or simply a tiny bug. The opposite happened quite often to me, no more than a week ago I was wandering with Vilkas when he got attacked by a Skeever and didn't even draw his weapon or turn around. As for quest followers, I'm confused; Esbern is Unaggressive, as are the two guys following you during Missing in Action and Mercer Frey, and yet they all rush when they see an enemy. But during the Thieves Guild questline, Brynjolf and Karliah follow you and act as normal even though they're temporary. This is all pretty messy. Elakyn (talk) 16:15, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

Messy and confusing. Esbern exemplifies this glitch-like behavior. I just redid getting Esbern in the ratway twice. The moment the Thalmor spawn, off he goes, summoning an atronach and dashing into the combat. As I always use a bow and stealth I always end up in the back seat. I'm going to venture a guess that there is a fixed distance that disregards physical obstacles like walls, floors and ceilings and once a criteria is met, possibly including the number of hostiles, the head long charge gets initiated and doesn't stop until all hostiles within distance X become neutral, knocked down, or dead. Sniffles (talk) 19:00, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

Duh! I believe I just found it. The confidence factor: Value 1, cautious, Will avoid/flee from threats unless the Actor is stronger than the threat. Is being essential a part of that formula? Is the formula, as I am guessing, only taking physical combat abilities into account? How does it calculate the destruction magic of all NPCs involved, or does it? Certainly, with her physical attack ability and carrying 3 magical staves, though she doesn't equip them and only wades in with her sword, Mjoll had overwhelming strength against the 2 mages and a hagraven at Orphan Rock. The same would apply with Esbern?? Does the game factor in allies during that calculation? Here is my guess: Magical ability is not computed. Only the ability to inflict combat damage. Mjoll is one of if not the most powerful tank NPC in the game. When the confidence exception is used in the calculation, she will charge. With Esbern who automatically summons an atronach, his combat ability + the atronach gets calculated. Maybe the game also include the PC and any other followers raw combat ability in the calculation?? Sniffles (talk) 19:18, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

Given that spells can be chosen at choice, while staves have fixed damages, it might make sense. Confidence doesn't really matter here as I believe all followers are set as Foolhardy. Even then, I'm pretty sure it doesn't cumulate the damage input of all enemies, that's why you see NPCs charging a group of enemies that are individually weaker but much stronger in group and more often than not this NPC will be defeated. I again did more tests regarding distance and equipment (staves) and while I did witness some changes, I wasn't able to replicate them on purpose. The most particular thing I noticed was that, on three occasion (twice Lydia, once Borgakh) my follower attacked even though the enemies were just searching for me and I was pretty close to them. The first time it happened Lydia has Wabbajack in her inventory, but not equipped. The other times nothing in particular, just upgraded weapons and not even enchanted. I must also mention that in all cases, after eliminating the closest hostile my follower sheated her weapon and did not react to enemy assault, be it physical or magical, but resumed combat when I got spotted. Elakyn (talk) 20:59, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

It is starting to make sense. Other factors that enter into this are how often the NPC does a proximity check and superiority calculation, and the random chain enemy effect. When the NPC sheaths a weapon and returns, sometimes with an enemy right up against her backside, she simply hasn't done a recent recheck. For some nut butter into the I just had a hilarious over reach. Upon exiting Ancestors Glade we got attacked by a dragon. I put a couple of arrows in it in sneak mode then it flew further and further afield. Finally the 'eye' told me I was hidden again. Then suddenly the dragon is back. Mjoll went all the way down to the bottom of the mountain and was battling it out north of the trail near Peak's Shade Tower. A huge distance away. Maybe we could just say she's a little weird. Sniffles (talk) 11:40, 14 March 2013 (GMT)

New problem

I raided the Northwatch Keep while doing the Missing in action quest. I had Mjoll loot the bodies of the Thalmor guards. And voila! 15 sets of elven armor, all flagged STOLEN! So I go through her inventory and almost everything I have had her pick up is flagged stolen. Any way I can fix this? Sniffles (talk) 02:37, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

That's actually a pretty common thing, as described here. If you ask your follower to pick up items and they already reached their weight limit, the items become stolen. I guess it's to avoid abuse of their infinite carry weight. Elakyn (talk) 08:49, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

Thanks! I suspect it isn't to avoid abuse but a quirk. A follower doesn't have the encumbered code/script. Just a limit. So when the limit is exceeded it can't happen. Since the follower doesn't own the 'can't be there' items they become flugged. Non owned property in other persons possession. I'd bet the programmers never saw that one coming as it is so convoluted. Sniffles (talk) 09:44, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

Mjoll's choice of weapons

She is equipped with an Ebony Battle Ax, legendary, damage 107; Grimsever, legendary, damage 66; and Stahlrim Battle Ax of Ultimate Chaos, damage 27. She always uses the Stahlrim ax. Why? When I take it away from her she uses the Ebony ax. — Unsigned comment by Sniffles (talk • contribs) at 10:27 on 31 March 2013 (GMT)

If you look at her primary skills in the table, you can see that she favors two-handed weapons. The Stalhrim axe enchanted with Chaos Damage has a potentially higher damage input that the legendary Ebony axe so she choses it, even though the Ebony axe has a more consistent and probably higher damage input in the long run. Elakyn (talk) 11:38, 31 March 2013 (GMT)

It's also a known issue that followers will choose a weapon that has a higher base damage rating over a weapon with lower base damage that has been improved on a grindstone to have a superior damage rating. --Xyzzy ^Talk 20:20, 8 April 2013 (GMT)

So this means the original weapon from the data base is referred to and the player character/save game carries the modifier? If that is the case then a corrupt or odd save can have an effect on all sorts of things down the lane, yes? Sniffles (talk) 03:27, 15 April 2013 (GMT)

Corrupt saves can have all sorts of crazy effects that are difficult to predict. Skyrim's not a simple game, if the data gets corrupted then all kinds of things can go wrong. --Morrolan (talk) 12:20, 15 April 2013 (GMT)

Dragonborn places regarding followers.

Do Mjoll the Lionesss, Cicero and any other followers have any unique dialogue about the Dragonborn places or is Lydia the only follower that does? Because Lydia's page is the only page that mentions dialogue for Dragonborn places. 2.221.252.192 17:44, 26 May 2013 (GMT)

No, Lydia was the only one to receive new dialogue. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 01:00, 28 May 2013 (GMT)

Marriage Malfunction

I tried to marry Mjoll, we were at the Temple of Mara. We were waiting for the ceremony to start and I waited a while outside the doors. I was waiting with Mjoll, she was next to me, but when I was done waiting she wasn't there anymore. I searched everywhere. Back in the temple, a quest started: Attend wedding. Well, everyone there said "Congratulations, I'm so happy for both of you" and Priest Maramal was 'busy'. Mjoll was no where to be found. Then it said "Quest 'Attend Wedding' failed and now I can't find her anywhere. Help?!?! — Unsigned comment by 24.247.54.109 (talk) at 05:22 on 29 June 2013

What platform are you playing on? — ABCface^◥ 09:30, 29 June 2013 (GMT)

I am playing on the Xbox 360. — Unsigned comment by 24.247.52.72 (talk) at 23:57 on 30 June 2013

In that case, the only thing I can think of is to reload a previous save. =\ — ABCface^◥ 06:49, 1 July 2013 (GMT)

Follower

Already having Farkas and Serana as temp followers iam able to also have mjoll follow me. Their quests still not complete. Farkas does seem to take my follower slot as I can't recruit anyone else. Whether this is intentional I don't know. In time I'll finish with Farkas and try recruiting someone else and her and the same time. By the way order of recruiting was Farkas, Serana, mjoll. — Unsigned comment by 24.57.73.23 (talk) at 03:18 on 7 July 2013 (GMT)‎

At the end of proving grounds it goes back to normal. After bloodline you can't have Serana and mjoll either without waiting. Until chasing echoes. — Unsigned comment by 24.57.73.23 (talk) at 17:40 on 13 July 2013 (GMT)

Almost perfect training target - Hostility.

Since Mjoll is immortal (always essential), she is often valuable both in combat and when "training" (I shouted her into molten rock once >;)). But sometimes she becomes "permanently" hostile - even if falls on knees and I sheathe my weapons/spells/bows - after she recovers she attacks me. Is there any workaround except attacking her not as often as possible or reloading save, when she becomes "permanently" hostile? 93.154.164.158 10:55, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

→EDIT: Apparently entering/exiting inside/outside of anything resets here hostility :D

→Shes perfect test subject, when near some entrance, while being inside :D 151.248.32.209 15:45, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

Mjoll how are kids fix

Thanks for undoing my fix for the problem with mission dialogue option. "linking to mods is discouraged"... well wtf, you want people to have a bugged game experience, or let them enjoy the game that works?

You link to unofficial patches, why can't you link to other patches?

Okay, if you don't want to have links to mods, I'll make a youtube video on how to fix the bug. 87.249.59.250 20:48, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

Sorry, but there are so many mods out there that pages would be a mess if we allowed any mods to be posted. We allow the major unofficial patches only, and we only allow console commands as bug workarounds. It helps keep the wiki professional and clean. You are allowed to post links to appropriate game-related videos or mods on discussion pages, but not actual articles. — ABCface^◥ 20:49, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

As ABCfce said, only on discussion articles. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 20:50, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

I don't get it. I'm trying to help here. Unlike your useless statements "Oh there's a bug" which doesn't help at all (go tell a starving beggar that he's a starving beggar, sure that won't help him much nor will it make him feel better), I provide useful fix to the problem, which actually will help resolve the bug. Yet that's "unprofessional"? Sorry, this is just BS, what you are doing. If you don't allow links in page - fine, copy link to discussion and link to that? Or that is also "unprofessional"? What is professional then? Keep shut, don't tell people about the fix until the "approved dieties" that make "official unofficial patches" get their hands to fix this problem?87.249.59.250 20:58, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

It follows the established style guide of the wiki. If the fix can be implemented via standard gameplay or console commands, then it can be placed on the article. Otherwise, it belongs on the talk page. Linking to something on a talk page which isn't allowed on the article is also not allowed on the article. I'm sorry you are bothered by this, but if you wish to change the wiki's policies on the matter, it would require a community-wide discussion. — ABCface^◥ 21:01, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

Well then your established style guide is faulty, because it prevents delivering fixes to the players. You should pay attention to that, and apply your forces there, rather than zealously policing every edit and undoing all you deem unworthy of your "style"... Tell you the truth, your efforts would be better spent acutally doing positive stuff, like preventing the "select cats" window from appearing multiple times for the same freaking post! If you don't know what I'm talking about, I have to select them cats like two or three times every time I post a link, just because you have to do it for every warning message instead of for all warning messages at once - so you do it once for "if you post has a link select cats" message, and second for "beware if you advertise we'll ban you" message, and so on. But yeah, who cares about doing something useful, you have "professional guidelines" to adhere to... 87.249.59.250 21:11, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

Anyways, if linking to talk page is not allowed, mentioning talk page definetly IS allowed and it's done all over the place. So I guess at least the current way I worded it in could stay and adhere to your... "profesisonal style"... 87.249.59.250 21:16, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

Great, it seems Alphabetface has a personal vendetta for me now? Undoing anything I do? 87.249.59.250 21:20, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

Right, time to take a step back. You were advised where you could post your mod link and video, and you have done so. There was absolutely no need to come back and try to pick a fight. This website was utterly plagued by spam before the abuse filter was implemented and the spam filter (the cats) was changed, and there is absolutely no way in a thousand era's that anyone around at the time would condone going back to that time of Atherus' backside simply to sate your ego. The Unofficial Patches are far more useful than one-off bug fixing mods and this utter waste of time in being civil to you has clearly not been worth it. If you have an issue with anything on the site you are free to make your case on the appropriate pages, but I can tell you now that your disagreements with our policies are wrong. The volunteers on this site do not need people like you having a go at them for trying to keep the site free of vandalism, spam, and other nasty things that appear nearly every week. So be thankful that our policies allow you to come here and not be subjected to a site unfit for purpose, and do not try to make us change simply for your ego, thankyou. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:25, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

I pick up fight? It's "Alphabetface" who has undone my mention that information about how to fix is available at the discussion page (even in text form - no need to download or view anything!). Who's picking up a fight? I'm just trying to let people know how they can fix a bug in the game. Can't post video or mod link - fine, I'm not looking for publicity or "viewers" or "subs", I just want people to know there is a fix! And a very simple one, not something that could break their game or be incompatible with other mods, because the problem is trivial really - just == sign where > sign should have been.

Unofficial patches are no doubt far more useful, but it can take some time before the unofficial patch fixes this problem. It was there since release, it is trivial, and it is not fixed yet - so yeah, no guarantee it will be anywhere soon.

I mentioned cats not because I don't think there should be anti-spam (there should of course), but because the system is bugged (it shows anti-spam for every single "warning", instead of showing it once for all the warnings).

Even if your policies forbid posting links to the mods or videos (fine, fine, your policies, your place, either accept them or get out, I understand), in any case your policies do not forbid MENTIONING discussion pages. Which is what you are undoing now, if you paid attention. And if your policies do forbid mentioning discussion pages, you have to fix like every second page of this wiki.

But I see you also want to undo anything I post now. Good job. If you want to continue this holy war, okay, then ban me for providing a fix to a bug (not a video, not a mod, just an explanation how to fix a bug and a mention that such explanation exists) and let's end this that way 87.249.59.250 21:35, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

Anyways, I see that this is pointless, and I'm done. Three edits rule now. I could of course continue and ask several my friends to undo posts for me, so that you would happen to fall under the three edits rule too (i mean all that rule does is lets the side who has the majority win the edit war) but I'll spend my time elsewhere. Let's say it: You win. People should not have a fix to the bug, people should continue playing a bugged game and be ignorant of a very simple solution and wait until hopefully unofficial patch includes this, which probably is never seeing as they didn't yet and a lot of time (and versions) passed already. Let's have it your way. Just when the dust wears off, maybe take a second of your valueable time and think about what happened today, eh? How several people, "guardians" of this wiki, fought to protect its visitors FROM knowledge, instead of helping shape it in the appropriate form?... Curious, isn't it, that you make so much effort to conceal knowledge on a resource that is supposedly dedicated to spreading it?87.249.59.250 21:48, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

(←) The problem isn't that we don't want a fix, the problem is directing people to the talk page for it. If the fix is not worthy of being on the page itself, then it doesn't deserve a note linking them to it there either. If it IS worthy of being on the page, then the fix should be on the page, not a note directing them elsewhere. The issue you ran into here was that you simply reverted the edit without waiting for a discussion on why it was reverted that first time. If an edit is reverted and you disagree with that, the worst possible thing you can do is to revert the reversion. Instead, open a discussion and wait until that discussion is complete, then consensus will dictate what happens next. You can't always be right, and sometimes consensus is against you no matter how strongly you believe in your position. Jeancey (talk) 21:55, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

(edit conflict) We tried to keep it to simply about the article, but actions have turned this into a discussion about you. The fix is on the talk page, and there is no mass cleanup needed through the wiki to remove talk page mentions. Basically every mention of the talk page is part of a "verification needed" request, which is an entirely legitimate mention as unverified info will get removed over the course of time, and we want things confirmed one way or the other. Linking to the talk page for a fix is not a legitimate reason. Anyway, instead of heeding advice and being satisfied with having the fix posted as close as possible to the article (which you should have been were you not concerned about publicity), you came back again and again trying to get a link to your link, resulting in a warning for you, this always makes me question your intentions. Heed my advice this time and leave it be. There will be no link to the talk page on the article, and the link will be here on the discussion page for those who consider it enough of an issue to seek answers. Your comments in that last post are unacceptable, now I'm telling you to leave the issue well alone or the page will be permanently locked from editing as a result. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:53, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

How to fix the problem with dialogue option "How are kids" missing for player-built houses

If you want Mjoll to have the missing dialogue option back, you can download a patch (mod) that will fix this here http://www.filedropper.com/showdownload.php/hissatsu-femalenordadoptionhowarekidshearthfirehomefix or you can do it yourself.

Here is the video that walks you through making it yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfoqKWfwjKU

If you don't want to watch the video, here are the instructions:

- open Creation Kit

- open HearthFires.esm (click "yes to all" in the popups)

- in object viewer navigate to Character-Quests, double click the quest "BYOHRelationshipAdoption"

- click Dialogue Views

- select RelationshipAdoption_SpouseHowAreKids on the left

- find the text string "Fine fine. Living out here on our own will take some time getting used to, but I think it'll be good for us." and double click it

- Topic Info window should open, in which locate the first conditional "GetVMQuestVariable .... == 5" and double click it and change it to "> 5"

- click OK in Topic Info window, click OK again in quest window, then click save (icon in top left) and save your mod. Make sure to enable it and you should have the dialogue option appear in the game

87.249.59.250 21:06, 22 August 2013 (GMT)

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