Skyrim talk:Elder Scroll

UnsortedEdit

It can be sold to Urag at the College 67.183.151.247 04:19, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, this is the only way to remove the scroll on the 360/PS3 versions (or on PC without using the console) once you are done with the scroll (after entering the time-wound and battling Alduin the first time in Alduin's Bane). Otherwise it will stay on you through the entirety of the main quest and forever, unless you go to the College and give it to him. Prize is 2k gold, possibly leveled.--Alphaman^•T• 06:20, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

got 2k as well, lvl 25. 62.195.114.212 22:28, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

player.removeitem 0002d513 1 Did it for me. --89.214.253.172 22:52, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

It can be removed by finishing dawnguard then uninstalling it. The elder scroll(s) wont be a quest Item.Lamar155 23:34, 10 August 2012 (UTC)lamar155

Levelled gold rewardEdit

47 and I received 2k gold as well. The reward isn't levelled. — Unsigned comment by 24.76.93.238 (talk) at 23:24 on 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Not PertainingEdit

If you have anything to add to this article please do so, such as the book format. But hope you all understand that the picture and "The background art of the Elder Scroll is a star map of the southern polar region, containing within it most of the southern constellations. The more famous ones are Scorpius (tail part found at the left hand side), Crux (found at the lower center of the Scroll), and Eridanus (found at the top left hand side, with Achernar as the large patch)." are not Skyrim relevent. — Unsigned comment by Cole1 (talk • contribs) at 04:29 on December 29, 2011

I don't think a screenshot showing half the scroll is suitable if this is being treated as an esoteric text. As long we all accept the premise, as you seem to, that the Oblivion and Skyrim scrolls are, in fact, the same document (or at least, have the same characters), the Oblivion image seems like a better representation, as its only real fault is that it is not partially obscured. We can simply add to the introductory note on the lore page, explaining on the lore and skyrim pages that "this image is taken from oblivion; to see how it appeared in Skyrim, see ..." I'm not saying it's ideal, but if we are treating this as a quest item rather than in-game literature, like with your revision, then this whole page should just redirect to a list entry on the quest item page. I would prefer to keep this as an esoteric text, in which case, I think the Oblivion image is the best representation of the scroll. Minor Edits 05:02, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

The Elder Scroll isn't really a book, not in Skyrim at least. I think that on one hand, its page doesn't belong here, but on the other hand it does... It should get a seperate page somehow. Also, I didn't know it was the same Elder Scroll from Oblivion? Hmm I suppose that opens up possiblities of how that one ended up in Skyrim after all those years... Anyway, since it's a book here, and it being the same Elder Scroll as in Oblivion, the Oblivion book image is the right image, since in Skyrim it's a scripted effect rather than actually reading it. The way it is right now is inconsistent and improperly implemented. I don't see why a new edit-warring user without the least bit of wiki knowledge should be allowed their ways anyway... If the wiki wasn't consistent, and therefore not based on the game, then it surely would've been classed as a scroll rather than a book ~ Dwarfmp 05:48, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Well thats the thing its not the same scroll... But do you think that my revised version is better?

http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Elder_Scroll&oldid=835831

Cole1

You can't read the scroll like a normal book, scroll, note, etc.. I'd treat it more like we'd treat the average artifact, see Skyrim:Dawnbreaker for an example. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 18:03, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

But then why do they link to each other if it's not the same scroll? That should get fixed. If the Elder Scroll should be treated as an artifact article, it should be under the artifact section. By that I mean it should be treated as a book in the books section, and that's where the problem lies, cause it isn't really a book. Agh! I agree with the screenshot, but the rest should stay the same. Perhaps it could get another page specifically for notes etc. ~ Dwarfmp 18:25, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

The scroll is categorised as a book in-game. I say we treat is as such and continue to use the current layout. The proposed "artifact page" would look ugly and out-of-place. --Legoless 18:33, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

(←) Didnt you read my link I did make it as a book page, its much better than the other one. Besides the current is just a spinoff of the lore... which is just a spinoff of Oblivion.--Cole1 18:46, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it looks that bad, Legoless. I spent like ten seconds doing it, but look at this sandbox. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 18:51, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

It's not an artifact, because it does not have a "unique and useful enchantment". Just as items such as the Oblivion:Amulet of Kings (or, for that matter, the Elder Scroll in Oblivion) weren't considered to be artifacts, this can't be either.

Every indication is that it is the same scroll as shown on the Lore page. Every sigil/glyph visible in File:SR-quest-Elder_Knowledge 02.jpg is identical to what is shown on the Lore page -- even down to the super-faint background glyphs. Who knows whether that's developer intention or developer laziness, but the end result is that the scrolls are the same, and the Lore page provides a much clearer representation of the scroll.

The Skyrim article probably still needs more information added to it -- such as its location, perhaps a note summarizing some of the discussion that explains why the Lore image is being shown on the page. But those improvements can be done without first deleting the entire page contents. --Nephele^Talk 19:03, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Now that I examine the scrolls in detail, I believe you're right (though they don't share the same background image). While I would prefer for it to be listed as a unique item, or something, I'm not really willing to argue the point. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 19:52, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

If by background image you mean the background glyphs, I'm pretty sure they do match, as the few discernible background glyphs in the Skyrim image match those in the Oblivion background. The best examples are the two glyphs in the Oblivion image on fifth row from the bottom, left side, which are also visible in the lower left corner of the Skyrim image, right where they're supposed to be. Minor Edits 22:18, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

(←) Okay, just to clear up, the scroll is a book in the game. Whether it has a binding or whether the pages can be flipped is irrelevant. The type is book, it has the keyword VendorItemBook, and the record is book. It's contents are <Cool graphic>, so I don't see how anyone can argue anymore that it is anything other than a book.

Now, the scroll you see in Oblivion and the scroll you see in Skyrim are-withholding colors–exactly the same. The one in Skyrim is fainter, but it is the same. You just have to look a little harder. elliot (talk) 04:34, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, given that the Scrolls have strange nature (as explained in game - they exist and they do not exist at the same time, one Scroll seems to exist in many timelines etc.), maybe every Scroll is the same and not the same at the same time? That would mean that this Scroll is the same Scroll and the different Scroll than the Scroll in Oblivion. I know, it sounds rubbish, but that isn't simply out of nowhere - the Elder Scrolls aren't usual documents, they are supernatural and we should expect such explanation. But of course, I may not be right. But what I really want us all to do is not to assume that this document HAS to be the same one as in Oblivion - I mean, it can be a copy of Oblivion's Scroll, but it may not be the same piece of paper. 83.9.207.144 11:46, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

ResolutionEdit

New scroll or not does anyone agree on my page? And would someone please compare the screenshots... To verify the scrolls are the same. Besides they cannot be the same. The theives guild wouldnt just travel all through blackreack to return a scroll. There could be multiple copies. Please exuse that I dont have a signature ... I'm on a phone. — Unsigned comment by Cole1 (talk • contribs) at 19:28 on 29 December 2011

Just something i've picked up on, how can they not be the same? They look very, very, similar. I would say, that, they look near enough identical. Except the fact there different colors. I think, that the current version best sums it up. I don't not see (other than one note about handing it over) what you've really added that is needed? --Kiz ^{·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•·} 19:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Look at the facts you werent blinded in oblivion. My theory is that it could be an ancient dwemer copy of the one in blackreach. As it is also thinner and not as decorated. Perhaps this is better http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Elder_Scroll — Unsigned comment by Cole1 (talk • contribs) at 19:44 on 29 December 2011

No, the PC wasn't, but all the moths were. I still do not see the point in replacing the current page with your version, the current image. Whilst from Oblivion, is a better representation of what the scrolls contents are. Your adding a lot of quest-related information onto a book page, which isn't acceptable on any book page. A quest link is already included, and any other information wants going an a {{Non Book}} tag at the top (just under the book summary) or right at the very bottom. --Kiz ^{·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•·} 20:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

I thought I would chime in, just was going to say I think the picture should be the Skyrim version, although less complete it fits the game and using the oblivion one makes it seem like an oblivion article on the scroll--Lord.Baal 21:47, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

(←) Well in the interests of everyone I will not change the article more... but I still beleve that my version is better. Oh and Kiz the Moths read many scrolls... not just my preposed copy.--Cole1 21:59, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

And your version or something similar might very well be better, the problem is there's just a lot of questions here that beg discussion first. The scroll defies categorization here as much as it does in the game. The impulse is to treat it as a scroll, but the in-game interface treats it differently than any other piece of literature. As Nephele pointed out, it has no unique enchantment enunciated for it like what is required to be defined as an artifact, but it does have the presumably magical effect of rendering the reader blind. It's unique in more ways than one. But while using the full image may be presumptuous (in the sense that much of it's content doesn't seem to "appear" in the Skyrim game), and there's some risk of confusion from using an Oblivion image in the Skyrim namespace, I think both of those problems can be addressed by an explanation in the introductory note.

I also think it worth noting that The Imperial Library is currently using an image of the full scroll, though to my knowledge that image does not appear in Skyrim. Not that we have to follow TIL's lead, but evidently someone over there feels it's most appropriate to both treat it as a scroll and to include the known portions that are not, technically, Skyrim content.

Also, I haven't finished Elder Knowledge, and haven't seen the scroll in-game for myself. I've obviously been operating under the assumption that Cole1's proffered screenshot is the most we actually get to see of the scroll's content in Skyrim. If I'm off base about that, let me know. Minor Edits 00:55, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for considering my work, and I do agree about discussing the problem before we change anything... my version is avalable here. Cole1 01:37, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

The Imperial Library version has that row of stitches (?) near the bottom the Oblivion version doesn't have. So it is probably something taken from the game files. What bothers me about File:SR-quest-Elder_Knowledge 02.jpg as representation for this page is the hand - obstructing the scroll and it's player specific. --Alfwyn 02:00, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

The image that TIL is using would be more appropriate for the Skyrim article, although I don't have a problem with using the Oblivion image if they are similar. As for whether they are the "same scroll", that's an issue for the lore article and shouldn't have an impact on the actual book pages if the star maps (for lack of a better term) are visually identical. --Legoless 02:13, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

(←) I still think the page needs a better explination of the scroll and its purposes. Like the one I created above. But I also still want the Skyrim picture... mainly because it is from skyrim. The lore article I also think should outline wheather they are different scrolls... in notes, perhaps. And lore might also want to have both pictures. But the Oblivion picture I think should be left to a seperate Oblivion post. — Unsigned comment by Cole1 (talk • contribs) at 03:22 on 30 December 2011 (GMT)

I think we're all agreed that this article needs a better explanation. The picture of the player reading the scroll isn't necessary. We don't have pictures of the player reading the other books in-game. --Legoless 02:26, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

So how 'bout we keep my template but use the oblivion elder scroll Cole1 02:33, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello? Cole1 02:54, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

This isn't an IM, you aren't going to get a response right away. And I think, if I may add in my two cents, that we keep the page as is, because it's a readable item, and we put a little section on Artifacts or Unique Items detailing the little bit that Cole is wanting to add. This scroll certainly would qualify for one of those pages. ES^T•E•C 03:00, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If we went with the oblivion image (or that TIL image, if it's actually from the Skyrim data and we can use it) instead of the screenshot, how would your format be better than the formatting currently being used? What would be the point of that? If you just mean the information you've suggested, most of it's on the page already. The information that's not (that the elder scroll is "one of many in existence encountered in skyrim" and is discussed by Septimus Signus) is either inaccurate, outside the scope of the page, or can be incorporated into the existing format, which is in general conformity with the style guide. Minor Edits 03:12, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I said that because there are multiple scrolls in the world. I said "encountered in skyrim" because this is one that you encounter in skyrim. Also the current version doesent seem well layed out or appealing to me. I beleve that my template is a more in depth and organized approach. Plus I beleve it will be easier to navigate and use for non-users. Cole1 03:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Other scrolls in the game are just pieces of enchanted parchment with spells written on them. Elder Scrolls are much different. The current layout is the standard for all books on the wiki, and there's no need to make an exception for this particular page. --Legoless 04:24, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

(←) Any type of conjecture about what happened to the scroll after the Oblivion Crisis is exactly that–conjecture. It has no place on the wiki; we cannot be guessing different historical events and portraying them as facts. The wiki is also not about winning, Cole, so this constant barrage of "Okay, I see your point, but mine is better right?" is not going to get us anywhere.

Now the current article is better, Cole, because it follows the wiki's guidelines (infobox and format). The only thing that seems to be getting to you is the picture we use. If you want the picture to be a teal color, I can fix the current one to make it look more like the one in Skyrim. However, I think once the CK comes out, we should be able to get a full version of the scroll. But for now, we really need to leave the template how it is because it's not hurting or confusing anyone and focus on perhaps integrating the "specialized" information into the quest article (even though the main information is already included). elliot (talk) 04:34, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Its a book page. It exists to show the contents of the book, it doesn't need to be any further laid out. It says a summary of the book/scroll. An info box stating where it is found and its id and such, and then the text of it. It doesn't need more. While it is unique, there are other quest related books/scrolls that don't have a different layout than this. Let's leave this page as is. I understand that this has a unique animation and effect, so I think we should add it to SR:Artifacts or SR:Unique Items, whichever is more appropriate, where we can justify ad:ding those extra tiny details, such as its blinding effect, related quests, etc. To me, this seems the most logical thing we can do, because if we will start adding related quests and extra detail to this book page, we might as well do it to every quest related book, in every gamespace, which would involve manpower and work that doesn't need to be there. ES^T•E•C 04:39, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

My opinion still stands the reason i joined this site is because the acces of information. The first time i searched elder scroll I was disapointed because there wasnt enough info. Also I think that we agreed to keep the picture the same. All I want is a more creative and in depth guide the the scroll. The formats or whatever you call them are spread way to thin. I will not argue more about this but my opinion still stands. Cole1 13:45, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Has Anyone Noticed?Edit

Has anyone notieced that the Elder Scroll is somehow streched out in both directions before you take it?

[[1]] [[2]] Cole1 03:40, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

and has anyone seen that the thef star sine is on the scroll — Unsigned comment by Gummeybear (talk • contribs) at 23:39 on 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Needs revisingEdit

At the moment the 'Note' field reads:

Note It is impossible to remove the Elder Scroll from your inventory for the remainder of the game, as it never loses its status as a quest item. The only way to get rid of it is to sell it to Urag gro-Shub at the College of Winterhold. Reading the scroll will render you blind for a few seconds

Suggest changing to: Notes

• Reading the scroll from the inventory will blur the players vision for a few seconds.
• After relevant quests have been completed, scroll can be sold to Urag gro-Shub at the College of Winterhold library for 2000 gold.

Guitaristanime 12:34, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Looks good to me, except it should be "the scroll can be sold to..." Minor Edits 21:12, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I wonder why the Note says "Since it is a quest item it adds no weight to your inventory.", as it actually weighs 20 points as stated in the book information section. 84.82.119.44 20:10, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

The game does not add weight to your inventtory.Br3admax 21:36, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Oblivion vs SkyrimEdit

I don't think the Oblivion image should be here, I think someone needs to get an image of the Skyrim one and put it here --The Aecho 23:44, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Skyrims elder scrollsEdit

(Spoiler) Should skyrims elder scroll page be split into 3 sections now seeing as how there are 3 as of dawnguards release — Unsigned comment by Fimin754 (talk • contribs) at 20:42 on 27 June 2012

Dragon, Blood and SunEdit

Is Blood and Sun needed anymore after dawnguard is finished? because if not then they are an unnecessary weight. Mr.Scryer. 23:05, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

they don't, actually. quest items don't really weigh anything, despite what the ui says. you can sell them to the moth priest, that's about it. Kotekzot 06:35, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

There should be a note that indicates that the game mistakenly states they weigh 20. — Unsigned comment by 75.111.128.43 (talk) at 02:03 on 29 August 2012

This is true for all quest items, and says so already on the Quest Items page. ABCface^◥ 03:05, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Elder Scroll (Dragon)Edit

The elder scroll for the main quest is call "Elder Scroll (Dragon)." Does anyone know what the "(Dragon)" refers to? Is it implying that the content of the scroll has to do with dragons? The in-game descriptions of the nature of elder scrolls is so vague, it's hard to guess what it could mean. Just curious. username12345 09:16, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Presumably it was just a handy name for renaming it. The Dragon is probably in reference to its use in fighting the dragons, specifically Alduin. Blood is probably a reference to finding more recruits, while sun is obviously due to its role in the Vampires aim of blotting out the sun. The Silencer speaks^Talk 17:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

The scroll concerns a prophecy of the dragon's return, according to Dexion Evicus. Thus the name. —Legoless 23:50, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

RenameEdit

I've proposed to move this article to Skyrim:Elder Scroll (Dragon). The current page would be better used as a disambiguation, which could also explain the renaming of the item by the Dawnguard DLC. —Legoless 23:50, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I concur, there are reasons to change that will have no negative impact on the disambig pages. The Silencer speaks^Talk 00:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. ABCface^◥ 04:22, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Ditto Snowmane^{(talk•email)} 04:29, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Let it be so. -Thunderforge (talk) 18:05, 3 September 2012 (EDT)

(←) Since this hasn't been moved, and I was about to, I came up with a different solution. The Dragon Scroll actually replaces the original, it isn't the same, so what if we add the little details to the summary, and redirect all three prefixed scrolls here (Blood, Dragon, Sun). I made a Sandboxed version for comparison. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 22:33, 15 October 2012 (GMT)

The usual book format doesn't look great. It might be worth creating a layout better suited to listing the three(/four) scrolls. Besides, the scrolls aren't even proper books, so the Oblivion image isn't essential to the page. A gallery would be a much more elegant option, which would allow for the inclusion of more images such as this, this and this. Treating the scrolls more like artifacts/items and less like documents seems like the best solution. Something similar was attempted before and rejected (see the above discussions), but that was before Dawnguard complicated things and it was quite poorly done. —Legoless (talk) 22:40, 15 October 2012 (GMT)

Using a non-book format may be better to lay out the information. There are 5 scrolls found in the CK. The two originals (DA04ElderSroll and Da04ElderSCrollFurled). They both get renamed by Dawnguard to "Elder Scroll (Dragon)". Then there are DLC1ElderScrollBlood, DLC1ElderScrollDragon and DLC1ElderScrollDragonSun. It will need further testing, but it looks like the DG Dragon scroll isn't really used ingame. It is referenced by the QA container, and two quests, but only the debug fast start stage of DLC1VQ06 seems to actually create/use it. --Alfwyn (talk) 08:50, 16 October 2012 (GMT)

I've revamped the page. —Legoless (talk) 16:36, 30 October 2012 (GMT)

Cancel the blot-out effect of the sunEdit

This is already mentioned on another wiki. After blotting out the sun using Auriel's Bow and Bloodcursed arrows, reading either the elder scroll (sun) or (blood) will cancel the blot-out effect of the sun immediately. Useful if one wants to undo the effect. — Unsigned comment by 175.143.242.43 (talk) at 02:51 on 5 March 2013 (GMT)

Verified this myself, I added this to the "Auriel's Bow" page, adding it now to this page. --76.187.68.154 17:47, 10 April 2013 (GMT) Xbox Username: Chatikh

I was about to come here to mention this myself. Just had it happen. Extremely annoying when my vampire character took on Alduin just now. It also dispels all magical effects on the player, including shrine blessings, summons, cloaks, thralls, etc. I notice this information seems to have been removed from the page, so I'll just be adding that back now. --67.142.170.22 11:16, 10 April 2015 (GMT)

Selling the Elder Scroll (Dragon) to UragEdit

I've never been able to do this until after completing Dragonslayer. Logically it should be possible to sell it after Alduin's Bane, but I haven't been able to in the past. Has anyone else sold it to Urag before completing Dragonslayer? --Morrolan (talk) 01:25, 11 April 2013 (GMT)

Selling it to Urag after Unseen VisionsEdit

If I had never sold the Dragon Elder Scroll to Urag, then could I sell it to him after Unseen Visions? Nicholasemjohnson (talk) 11:57, 28 April 2013 (GMT)

WeightEdit

I can confirm that despite what people say, the Elder Scrolls do in fact weigh 20 units each. I was carrying 163 units (of 345 max) before deciding to sell all three scrolls, and after selling them I had 103/345 units. And it's not just a display thing; while carrying the Scrolls I would become overencumbered by reaching 346/345.

I'd say this warrants an edit to the page, and perhaps a few other pages that mention the weightlessness of quest items. Of course, one would probably want to verify independently. 67.173.209.250 04:33, 12 August 2013 (GMT)

Agreed. I will edit the sentence. --Xyzzy ^Talk 01:50, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

Not sure "while they are quest items" works either, as the Scrolls are considered quest items through the entire game--the only way to get rid of them is to sell them. Also, I'm not sure they're weightless while they're pertinent to quests, either; this should probably be investigated in some way or another. 67.173.209.250 04:43, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

Table IssuesEdit

While looking over the tables, I noticed that one was completely broken see this edit, and the table in the previous version to see what I'm talking about. After some experimentation, I found that it only did that with the DG template in place, so I have removed it. Even trying to circumvent the error by just linking to Dawnguard's page directly failed. If anyone can find a way to re-add it, without the table breaking, please do so. This was only intended to be a temporary fix as I'm unsure of the correct solution here. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 03:52, 12 August 2013 (GMT)

Reading a scroll dispels all temporary effectsEdit

I've noticed that reading the scroll before the battle with Alduin and reading the other scroll during the Dawnguard quest dispels all temporary effects you have may have had the moment before reading them, including cloaks, armor spells, shrine blessings, summons, thralls, etc. There's a DispelAllSpells command given in the script attached to the scrolls as part of the reading animation.

I don't know if that's worth noting on the page but it sure is an annoying thing to realize that your shouts are suddenly recharging 20% slower or your magicka 25% slower while fighting Alduin because suddenly your shrine blessing is gone. --67.142.170.25 02:46, 8 April 2015 (GMT)