Online talk:Ehlnofey

Definition as a ConditionEdit

I don't think we should be filling "Ehlnofey" out in the condition field of the NPC Summary. Conditions are usually something indicated by the use of a skin on an NPC, and some are defined by specific gameplay toggles, like vampires and werewolves. You can't exactly become an Ehlnofey the same way a Moon Hunter Archer became a man-beast, hear? Adding "Ehlnofey" as a condition to Goradir feels like it defies the spirit of what a "condition" is. Goradir is just a bone prop with a dialogue prompt. Granted, he and the other Ehlnofey use shaders or have particle effects emanating from them, but the thing that unifies them is intangible (a lore concept), is being applied to them arbitrarily (and is inferred rather than outright stated in Goradir's case), and inconsistent (they all use different shaders or particle effects).

I don't think people are going to be open to the idea of simply deleting this page, so instead of defining this as a condition with a parameter in the infobox, I propose we denote Ehlnofey simply by adding a category to their pages, similar to how we treat announcers like High Kinlord Rilis XII. "Announcer" isn't a condition either, but we define it because the NPCs in that category all share something in common: they speak when their model isn't on-screen or are otherwise commentating something. There only thing unifying the Ehlnofey is the notion that they embody a concept that shows up in lore.

I feel like this is similar to the issue we had with "Daedric Prince" being put in the race parameter for Creatures like Hermaeus Mora and Molag Bal. There is no Daedric Prince "race" defined in-game, there's no gameplay indicator uniting them, it was just something that was arbitrarily applied to them using knowledge of the lore.

The Ehlnofey are diverse: they don't use the same models, and the two "types" we meet all use wildly different things to indicate they're "different" from your average skeleton or hovering Breton. The Earth Bones each use different shaders, and the Bone Orchard walkers have a particle effect. Dringoth is a skeleton, and Goradir is an actual prop. Goradir's particle effects aren't even consistent with Dringoth's: his glow is aqua-green, while Dringoth's glow is a vibrant blue. Meanwhile, Spirits all use a shader that makes them translucent. Even though Spirits can come in different colors, we have a metric by which to determine that they're spirits. This metric is fairly consistent and isn't just held together by a silent agreement forged in a mutual understanding of the lore.

In short, I understand the desire to distinguish the Ehlnofey in some manner, but I don't think defining it as a condition is consistent with other conditions in the namespace, nor is it accurate semantically. Instead of defining "Ehlnofey" in the condition parameter of the infobox, I think we should add a category to all their pages like we do with Announcers. -MolagBallet (talk) 18:46, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Its the best we could come up with. Putting them as a race was difficult because the guardians in Glenumbra are actually Bretons with skins applied. Defining condition based off the skin texture applied is also difficult, can't classify Guardian of the Earth as Hollow even though it uses the same skin, Guardian of the Water used to be Frozen but now its some... water thing? Guardian of Air is unique and I can't call that just a Projection cause that'd be inaccurate. The skeletons in Bone Orchard have unique effects on them that give them burning skulls and blue eyes that nothing else in the game has. I can't make up something vague like "condition=burning head", and they are at the base skeletons. Going with Ehlnofey as condition was really the only option I see available. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 19:00, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Sorry if any of this comes off as rude, I didn't mean it that way. Was just trying to explain the whole thought process of why it functions like this today, as Ehlnofey were originally categorized as a "race" which technically didn't work much better. If there are any suggestions for what to put as conditions for the skeletons and guardian of air/water (while keeping ehlnofey as a separate category), I'm all ears. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 05:00, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

No worries: I apparently forgot to watch this page, so I didn't end up seeing your reply, but it's a valid point: you were working with what you had at the time.

I think we can remove Ehlnofey as a condition from the infobox and add a category to their pages (Online-Ehlnofey) to mitigate the grammatically incorrect "Online-Ehlnofeys" currently being applied to their pages by the infobox. Alternatively, we can forgo categories altogether and simply list them here. It should be a simple matter to link this page on each of the Ehlnofey NPCs to bridge everything together. -MolagBallet (talk) 01:49, 27 January 2024 (UTC)