Oblivion talk:Knights of the Nine Items/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Knights of the Nine Items discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Name

Is this really the right name for this page? There's no indication that the page refers only to Knights of the Nine items. Since "New Items" are added by most of the official plug-ins, it seems like this page should have a more specific name. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 12:42, 27 November 2006 (EST)

You're absolutely right. I intended to do it as Knights of the Nine New Items. I'll change everything around now. GuildKnight 18:40, 27 November 2006 (EST)

Helm

The helm I received at level 27 was light armor. GuildKnight 11:34, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Interesting. I included all the light armor statistics in part because I wasn't completely sure how this one variable, ND00.UseLightArmor gets set. So far I haven't seen any script where it gets set, but it clearly determines for each piece of armor whether you receive the light armor or heavy armor version. My character received a full set of heavy armor, but that's to be expected (she normally wears heavy armor, her heavy armor skill is 100 but light armor is only 56).

It sounds like more research is going to be needed on this. It would be helpful if anyone who notices that they receive light armor versions could add a note here. Info on factors that might have affected the decision would be helpful (what are your character's skill levels in each armor type? Was your character wearing more heavy or light armor at the time?) I'll try to think of more places in the construction set where this might be hidden, but I've already looked in several dozen scripts without any luck, so I might need some new ideas :)

Another thing I've wondered about while I'm asking questions: does the level of the item get determined only when you first receive it? Or does putting an item on the "armor stand" in the priory reset the item's level? --Nephele 13:30, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Okay, it may have something to do with which skill (light armor or heavy armor) is the highest level, because my light armor skill was much higher than my heavy armor skill, as I wear robes.

I got so caught up in the story that I didn't really keep track of my skill levels or get the statistics of my other items, and, unfortunately, I have lost track of which save it was. Fortunately, I'm almost back to doing the Knights of the Nine again, and I'll keep track of what my skill levels and item statistics are this time.

I will repost when I have some info on this. --GuildKnight 22:02, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Sorry, GuildKnight, we were both making the same changes to the page at the same time, and I selfish overrode the edit conflict and went with my version (because there were a few other tweaks I'd also done at the same time).... I hope you don't mind :) --Nephele 23:10, 3 December 2006 (EST)

Don't mention it. It's basically the same thing anyway, except a few things that I couldn't figure out how to do (certain bulleted list stuff that I haven't memorized yet). Looks great. --GuildKnight 23:15, 3 December 2006 (EST)

Also, I did just find a snippet of code that confirms that this decision is made based upon the values for the character's Heavy Armor and Light Armor skills. It seems to be made just once, during the Vanua quest, so you'll either get a full suit of heavy armor or a full suit of light armor. Once I've figured out exactly how this snippet fits into the big picture, I'll fill in more details. --Nephele 01:49, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Another issue: Are you guys sure the 21+ heavy greaves have 11 as armor statistic? Cause daedric armor has 11.25. Pascal 13:07, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Yep, the armor rating of those greaves really is 11.00, not 11.25, based on the construction set; I just double-checked to be sure. Although the statistics seem to have been set to correspond to basic armor types, e.g., the 21+ heavy armor has statistics generally similar to daedric armor, there are a handful of odd discrepancies. Another obvious example is that the lowest level heavy helmet has a weight of 0. All the stats on this page come directly from the construction set (except for prices which were confirmed in game because the final cost is the sum of the item's cost and the enchantment cost), so if you see 11.00 instead of 11.25 it's not just because it's taken from an in-game truncated value. --Nephele 13:54, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Sorry, Nephele. I didn't realize you weren't positive about when it's determined until I re-read your posting just now. Feel free to change the page back until we verify if you want. --GuildKnight 14:03, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Nah, that's fine; I'm sure there are readers who'll appreciate knowing that info, and I'm pretty sure of the basic facts. My only hesitation was that I found it in an unusual way (by doing a search through the raw binary .esp file, instead of loading the file up into the construction set). On the one hand, I'm now sure that I've found every instance of a script where the UseLightArmor variable is modified or accessed. On the other hand, I haven't gotten around yet to seeing exactly what triggers the script. But given that the script also unlocks a door inside Vanua, it's pretty safe to say that the script is called sometime during that quest. (And given that you've confirmed it's possible to obtain light armor, it's also clear that it's not just an orphaned bit of script). If there's any need to fine-tune the statement later, that's easy enough to do :) --Nephele 14:22, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Imperial Watch Shield

i cant finde the Imperial Watch Shield anywhere in Leyawiin Chapel Undercroft, is it there or is it a mistake? — Unsigned comment by Magelund (talk • contribs)

Hmm... very interesting question. From the construction set, the shield is definitely in the Leyawiin Chapel Undercroft... along with an Akaviri Katana and a Sleeping Titan! But "in the undercroft" just means that it's in the same cell (map area) as the undercroft; it's not in the room that you regularly enter, but in another hidden section (the area where you do Zenithar's challenge is officially also "in the undercroft", just in another disconnected section). From the looks of it, it's an easter egg that hasn't been previously uncovered. I'm kind of curious as to how you're supposed to find the sleeping titan and his loot... the developers must have put in some time of trick to reach that area. I'll keep digging. --Nephele 16:52, 9 February 2007 (EST)

How come this Imperial Watch Shield is in the Knights of the Nine New Items section? I got this shield from the body of Adamus Phillida after killing him for the Dark Brotherhood. If I didn't have the plug-in would I not have found it? -- Necaradan666

Different shield, same name :) The standard Imperial Watch Shield that exists without this mod is documented at Oblivion:Guard_Uniforms. This shield has a different formID and different internal editor name. I don't think you can actually see any difference between them in game, so there probably isn't really any reason to care that the internal IDs are different. And given that nobody seems to have figured out how to access this KotN easter egg, the fact that KotN adds this shield is probably irrelevant, too ;) --Nephele^Talk 11:58, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

Woodland Grace

Does this work for everyone else? Is there some problem with the item? I still get attacked by any and all natural creatures that I come across while wearing the boots. -- Necaradan666

It worked for me and I'm pretty sure it has worked for other players, too. Any chance you're playing using a mod that alters creatures in the game? Because it would be pretty easy for a mod to accidentally interfere with the tweak that makes this effect work. Also, it only works with the creatures listed in the item's description. In other words, it does not work with rats or mudcrabs. --Nephele^Talk 12:02, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

I have the same problem, I was riding through somewhere with my Paint Horse and a bear started attacking it, so I put my horse on a rock where the bear couldn't reach it and started yielding to the bear, but it turned towards me and attacked me, and so did another one which I had not yielded to, and I WAS wearing the boots. It had some other name, something like Den Bear was part of it's name. Glitch or are these types of bears an exception?

Redguard Elite 16:39, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Woodland Grace only works with the standard variety of each animal. As specifically stated in the article on bears, it has no effect on West Weald Bears. --Nephele^Talk 17:19, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

you might also have encountered one of the bears from the quest "hunting season". they are obviously an exception as you are required to kill them in that quest. — Unsigned comment by 98.142.49.26 (talk) on 6 May 2010

Those are the West Weald Bears mentioned in the previous reply. rpeh •T•C•E• 16:08, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Crusaders Armour

My heavy armour skill is 93 and my light armour 62, yet i still recieved the light armour version of the crusaders stuff. Any suggestions or reasons why this would happen? — Unsigned comment by 67.71.58.190 (talk)

Whether you will receive light or heavy is set at the point when you receive the first vision from Pelinal Whitestrake, before you ever go to Vanua and receive the first item, and is never changed after that point. So I'm guessing that your light armor skill was higher than your heavy armor skill at that point in time. --Nephele^Talk 11:45, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

I had the same experience. However, I am abolutely positive than my Heavy Armor skills was way higher than my Light Armor skill when I had the vision. I am playing the Spanish PS3 version. Edit: Now all the elements of the Armor are listed as 'heavy' and the skill is progressing as usual. Is it because now I have the full armor?

The same has happened to me as well. Does this mean its just a bug that fixes itself when you get full armour? I also have the ps3 verizon, but North American.

placing any of the relics on the armor stand will update the armor, fully repair it and recharge the enchantments on the sword and mace. doing this will also likely be the solution to the glitch. if you had more of one armor skill than the other and you wanted the other, thats it. save and train the skill you wanted before praying to the last wayshrine or you'll be stuck with the other one.

Greaves of the crusader

If you get the light armour greaves at level 16-20 to get the 15% resist weapons enchantment, does this mean that putting them on the stand when you are levels 21+ will remove this? 81.76.6.173 21:37, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

Yes, I'd guess it would. You should end up the level 21+ version which has Fortify Restoration 6pts and Fortify Destruction 9pts. On the other hand, it also means if you get the light armor greaves at a low level, placing them on the stand at level 16-20 should give you the resist weapons version. --Nephele^Talk 21:49, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

Armour set and stand

I have a question. If you get the light armor to start, then level your heavy armor stat so that it is higher/maxed/equal/etc., when you put it on the stand, will it switch the armor types for you? — Unsigned comment by 142.177.127.25 (talk)

Probably not.--Darth NANAME 17:45, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

It might actullaly,Since it resets the Armor stats,according to ur level and repairs it. --Prince of Madness 00:57, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Nope, it stays eihter light or heavy. It was already on this talk page actually; Also, I did just find a snippet of code that confirms that this decision is made based upon the values for the character's Heavy Armor and Light Armor skills. It seems to be made just once, during the Vanua quest, so you'll either get a full suit of heavy armor or a full suit of light armor. (under 'helm', originally posted by Nephele)--LordDagon 04:13, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Creators

Each Crusader item was created by the Nine divines (except Talos) and each was tasked with the creation of an individual peice of the armor. I know 6 divines who created a peice of armor, all thats left is the curiass and greaves with Akatosh and Mara left. Can someone say who created the greaves and curiass? — Unsigned comment by 68.104.192.49 (talk)

My guess would be the Curiass from Akatosh and the Greaves from Mara. If you look at the blessings in the Undercroft you will see Akatosh blesses you with strength and Mara blesses you with endurance. (Gadianzero 16:37, 3 January 2009 (EST))

This is just a guess, But i'd guess Akatosh made the chest peice, as he is the sort of strong god, and the curiass is the main part of all armor. But that's just a guess. Lucky the Cat Guy. 16:40, 3 January 2009 (EST)

Okay, based on the above this is what I'm assuming for who made what. (Gadianzero 13:24, 9 January 2009 (EST))

• Helm-Dibella
• Cuirass-Akatosh
• Guantlets-Stendarr
• Boots-Kynarteh
• Shield-Juilanos
• Mace-Zenithar
• Greaves-Mara
• Sword-Arkay

Sir Amiel's Ring?

What about Sir Amiel's Ring? Its definitely a new and unique item added by this content. Unless there's another Red Diamond shaped ring I have missed... --Davehoekst^Talk 11:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

I just came to ask exactly the same question. As far as I know it's a unique item. I've also lost the one I had, so I'd like to console in a replacement.

The red diamond is the icon of the Knights of the Nine. So the model of the ring is most likely added by the expansion.

Umaril's Sword

In Garlas Malatar, right before I picked up his sword after defeating him (An embarrasing, decepted death), I hesitated. In the lower right of the screen, the general area to present what you have in front of you, Its statistics showed it had a base damage of 106. I'm guessing this was made as such to make him generally more powerful, and as it says in the article it is replaced when you pick it up. (It says 'Umaril's Sword Added') After leaving it there to pick up after the questline, just in case it makes a difference, I am dieing to know what the ID for it is. --M'aiq the Liar 04:20, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

I'm sure a sword with massive base damage would be very useful for many players, is there anyway we could get some ID's? M'aiq the Liar ^Talk 16:29, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

As that sword can only be acquired by using the console or modding the game it's not really relevant to add those statistics to the article. If you have access to either, you can fashion your own invincible items anyway. --Timenn < talk > 16:58, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Sword of the Crusader

I've finished the quest, and forgot about the priory alogether, so when I finally revisited at level 17 I was baffled that the Sword of the Crusader still had only 16 damage. All the armor is as should be, and the weight of the Sword is right, just the damage wich is faulty. Anyone know something about this?

85.164.177.169 07:17, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

The damage displayed on this page is the base damage. The actual damage (displayed in-game) varies, depending on the health of the sword, and your Blade skill. The best ways to check which version you have is to compare the Weight, Value and Enchantment. They always appear the same. --Timenn < talk > 07:28, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

The Arm of the Crusader fortification wasn't green for me, but blue (it was still only activated with the sword of the crusader). Also, when my blade was 89 (nearly 90), I equipped Sword of the Crusader and fought some stuff. My blade leveled up and, with no pop-up pertaining to mastery, I could now parylyze with a forward power attack (stab), even in mid-air. I also was gaining no blade exp. per hit. I un-equipped it, used a different sword (Goldbrand) and couldn't do the power attack. I put on the Ring of Eidilon's Edge (spelling?) and my blade skill was green, at level 112, and I couldn't do the forward stab attaack. What's going on?

Same thing happens to me when i use the mace for my blunt skill i took it off and just trained it to 100 to prevent any possible freezing/glitching. As far as the experience i had with it went it freaked me out for a second so i took it off and trained it using an ebony mace instead. I would take the safe route and just not use the sword until 100 for the sake of any freezing glitching or unloadable saves--Zadorozny 03:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The game treats the boosts for blade/blunt and restoration by the relics as if that's your actual level and you get the skill perks. Why do you think this would freeze your game? 173.66.234.111 00:12, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Umaril's Sword vs. Jyggalag's Sword

Which is stronger? Umaril's Sword from Knights of The Nine, or Jyggalag's Sword form The Shivering Isles? Oblivion nerd 22:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Compare for yourself: Umaril's Sword and Sword of Jyggalag. --GuildKnight^Talk2me 23:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Weird Bug

I have some sort of bug that causes all the armour to appear as a yellow box. The armour does not appear at all where it's supposed to, but it does appear on my character. I also cannot talk to anybody about rumours without the game freezing, and I can no longer sit down. I have the Unofficial Official Mods Patch, but it didn't help. Does anybody else have this problem, or is it just irrevocably messed on my computer? I really want to play the mod, but I can't, so can anybody help with this?

Oh, and the above was added by Tranum 13:12, 29 November 2008 (EST)

That sounds like a mesh glitch similar to this one. You should try reinstalling the mod. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:42, 29 November 2008 (EST)

Sword of the Crusader's Special Attack Dialog.

When you attack using the sword, mainly a strong attack, your character says "DIE, UNBELIEVER!". I've only tested this on a Breton, so I don't know if there's race-specific dialog, or if there's a different dialog for the Mace of the Crusader. Also, this works without the entire Crusader set being equipped. _{Prince of Madness}^Daedryon 13:19, 3 January 2009 (EST)

I just tried it using a Dark Elf character with no luck. What kind of enemy were you fighting? (Gadianzero 14:18, 3 January 2009 (EST))

Xivilai in Peryite's Realm. _{Prince of Madness}^Daedryon 15:06, 3 January 2009 (EST)

Doesn't work for me either, and I can't see anything that would cause this to happen in the scripts. Are you playing with a mod? –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:17, 3 January 2009 (EST)

Did you have a KotN follower with you, could it have come from them?(Gadianzero 15:47, 3 January 2009 (EST))

The phrase "Die, unbeliever!" is in the game from the start, but there's nothing that would cause the player to say it. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:55, 3 January 2009 (EST)

I am level 50. I used the player.coc command to travel to the one cave in Peryite's Realm where there's Spider Daedra and Xivilai. All I had on was the Sword of the Crusader. Crusader's arm was enabled, and when I attacked, my character said it. _{Prince of Madness}^Daedryon 15:57, 3 January 2009 (EST)

If I remember correctly, that phrase is said by Mythic Dawn people. Could there have been one near you? If not, i'd just look in the CS to see if the sword adds any dialogue.

It was Peryites Realm. There weren't any Mythic Dawn. BUT! I was a Member of the Mythic Dawn! I just remembered. I'm a member of every faction accessible on the 360, on my PC save. So maybe being a Mythic Dawn member gives you the dialog? _{Prince of Madness}^Daedryon 16:41, 3 January 2009 (EST)

It could be possible, considering you're not really supposed to be in the mythic dawn. The dialogue could be a bug that was somehow added to your character, and power attacking may have triggered it. (edit) A good way to test it would be to remove yourself from the Mythic Dawn, and try attacking again. Lucky the Cat Guy. 17:04, 3 January 2009 (EST)

Yeah, it was the faction. The faction (for me at least) gave me the "Die, unbeliever!" dialog. _{Prince of Madness}^Daedryon 17:25, 3 January 2009 (EST)

I actually heard the same thing with my Altmer character, without the sword of the crusader. Also, as well as "Die Unbeliever", I would say "I do not fear death!" when I jumped from the top of the mountains outside Cloud Ruloer Temple. I was never in the Mythic Dawn Faction as I barrelled my way through Lake Arius Caverns, only talking to the door gurad. It was a GOTY edition on the PC with no mods/plugins. What happened, do you guys reckon?

Mace of the Crusader

Is the mace of the crusader basically a Blunt equivalent to the Sword? (aside from weapon type, and enchantment I think.) Or is the sword generally stronger? Because it seems like a bigger hassle to get the Sword than the mace.

At 21+, the Sword weighs more. Of course, they have different enchantments. --Debatra 17:18, 3 January 2009 (EST)

Armor/Weapons randomly disappearing/reappearing

The Crusader armor sometimes appears in my inventory, and sometimes it doesn't appear... I can always make it appear on the armor stand, but when I take it off, it doesn't appear in my inventory, but if I take off/put on other weapons, the Crusader equipment will show up. Also, the wayshrines map never appeared. I tried using cheats to add the equipment manually, but it says the item code is wrong. According to this article the first 2 digits depend on the # of mods installed, does that mean that if I have 4 mods installed the first 2 digits will be 04? Thanks 205.250.76.39 00:56, 3 April 2009 (EDT)

Items may seem to disappear from your inventory if you have a large number of them. Try dropping other items and see if the armor appears. For the item codes, see this. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:03, 3 April 2009 (EDT)

Amiel's ring

Shouldn't you add it to the article? It's an item that's not available before the installation of KOTN right? SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com 10:44, 8 June 2009 (EDT)

It's already one there: clicky. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 10:53, 8 June 2009 (EDT)

Oh, I'm sorry, I meant Sir Amiel's key. SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com 08:22, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

Again, it is already on the wiki, found here. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 08:29, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

I know it's on the wiki, but shouldn't it be listed in the article? SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com 15:42, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

We've elected to include all Keys on a single page. Having it here will cause redundancy. Furthermore, the key isn't really a new item that showcases the shiny new items that people will get when buying KotN. --Timenn < talk > 08:33, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

I meant so that people can see if they've collected all items from each plug-in. It'd make sense to have all keys (or maybe you want to call it other/miscellaneous items to really fill the page) from KOTN on a page. Apart from keys, things like the Conjurer's scrolls or whatever they're called from Fort Bulwark, could be included on the page (or under "books"/literature). Just a suggestion. SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com 07:08, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

(outdent) I don't think it needs to be on multiple pages. If they really need to see, then they can search it out. Plus, that key is a must find in the story... so it will be found. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 07:12, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, but still... what about the conjurer's scrolls and such? SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com 07:19, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

Again, they already have a place. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 07:22, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

I know that too, I meant for those who wish to collect stuff. But whatever, no one seems too engaged in doing it. SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com 07:24, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

Better blade?

I heard somewhere that if you use an item duplication glitch on the crusader sword, the copy can be used anytime, regardless of infamy. Is this true?— Unsigned comment by 24.233.128.66 (talk) at 22:29 on 26 September 2009

I don't know, but we usually don't cover exploits by glitches, so even if it's true, it's unlikely that this gets mentioned anywhere on the site. It might be useful, however, so I'm not too sure about it ^Talk Wolok gro-Barok _{Contributions} 22:36, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it is true. It removes the script that causes it's effect. You can use all of the Crusader's Armor/weapons with any infamy.— Unsigned comment by SH30G0R4TH (talk • contribs) at 01:15 on 1 October 2009

Doesn't that remove all the special effects from the relics aswell though, for example the Crusader's Arm and Woodland Grace?--VergilSparda 17:16, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I have tried the glitch using the skull of corruption in a vampire cave. After killing the vampire, picking up and dropping the skull, and running outside I killed the corrupted clone. After I saved I took all of the crusader relics, and was able to use them with the gray Cowl. They all work, regardless of infamy, but cannot be put back in the display in the priory of the nine and will not have their scripted effects. 24.233.128.66 14:56, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

stupid relics...

If I just wanted to sell all the relics, would they reappear, or would they be gone forever, regardless of whether or not I needed them? 24.233.128.66 14:55, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, I guess they would just disappear when the merchant's stock respawned. I sold my Skeleton Key to Ongar the World-Weary and it disappeared from his stock after 3 days.Lord Sheogorath

gray cowl

hi i was just wondering if lets say you are wearing the boots of the crusader and put on the gray cowl will the animal thing stay like how that other giltch?--GUM!!! 00:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Wrong helm?

I just obtained the Helm of the Crusader and its heavy armor but my Light Armor skill has been higher then my heavy armor since well before I started the quest. Anyone know whats up with this?--125.238.72.249 05:55, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Cuirass and Greaves of the Crusader Creators

This may only be speculation, but logically, wouldn't the creators of the Cuirass and Greaves of the Crusader be Mara and Akatosh, respectively? This is based on the enchantments granted by the items. With the known gods, the enchantments fit their domains, such as Stendarr's gauntlets having fortified Restoration and resistance to disease, both symbols of mercy, or Julianos' shield having a reflection of magic spell, which may be interpreted as magic being an extension of wisdom, which is Julianos' domain. In this example, and following this logic, the Cuirass is based around protection and healing, as seen from the enchantments placed on the item - a Restoration bonus, health fortification, and even resistance to normal weapons. By contrast, the Greaves fortify both Restoration and Destruction, which could be construed as the personification of Time itself, birth and death, creation and destruction. The Sword is named as Arkay's domain, so this leaves only Akatosh as the potential creator of the Greaves by this vein of logic. Comments? Wildcard977 06:06, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

While it may be plausible, without hard evidence in-game to back it up, it doesn't warrant being mentioned on the page. – Robin Hood↝talk 17:55, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

No, of course not. Tis mere idle speculation of a bored scholar with far too much free time on his hands. Wildcard977 00:04, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

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