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User talk:Gune

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CookieEdit

You have been given a cookie!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

Great job on those Summerset pages! Keep it up. --FioFioFio (talk)

UserpatrollerEdit

Hi Gune, you've just met the requirements to become a Userpatroller. If you're not familiar with the program, it's the first step to becoming move involved with UESP, and comes with some new perks and responsibilities. If you want to know more, check out the linked page. You can also apply on the same page, or ask me if you have any questions!. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 03:36, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Quest DialogueEdit

NPC pages should contain all dialogue spoken by that person, so please restore all the dialogue you have removed. Similarly but inversely, quest pages do not have to have all pertinent dialogue on them, in fact a quest page doesn't have to have any dialogue on it at all. That doesn't mean you should remove it, just reconsider the wholesale copy-pasting of paragraphs of dialogue that can easily be summed up in a few shorter, more easily read and understood sentences. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 02:38, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

On the ONQP page it states under dialogue that "dialogue needed to advance the quest should be detailed", which is why I added the dialogue to the quest page (as it is non-optional for the quest). In addition, I feel the dialogue contains information that would otherwise need to be paraphrased on the quest page. I am now a bit confused as to what is the preferred method of formatting for rewriting quests for ONQP. Having non-optional dialogue on the quest-page and having all dialogue on a NPC-page also conflicts with the Style Guide's section on redundancy, in my opinion, as this will/might create two places on the wiki where the dialogue is included. How can I get more guidance on this topic? Is there a specific page to discuss this or can this be discussed in the Discord? If the consensus is that your method is preferred I'm happy to adjust the changes, but until then I'll keep them as is. Gune (talk) 13:25, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, do not keep it as is because you are wrong. Please re-read my post because you have read it entirely wrongly too. Restore the dialogue to the NPC pages, that is not an option. If you don't I will. You have taken that portion of that sentence on the ONQP page completely out of context. The most important part is two words preceding the quote which is "only the", which makes that sentence tell you that unrelated dialogue should not be quoted. The sentence does not say must, it is a choice on whether or not you include it, with guidance on what dialogue you choose to use.
The Style Guide is completely correct, which is why all NPC dialogue goes on NPC pages, with only quotes used on quest and other pages. Redundancy is only applicable when you start plastering entire conversations on quest pages where they are not helpful. Quest pages are supposed to be about how to complete quests, and an entire dialogue tree doesn't need copied in full in order to tell people how to do that or even which dialogue option to choose. There are actually three versions of writing at play here - paraphrasing, quotation, and transcribing. The current layout on ESO pages is transcribing, quotation is much more readable and keeps pages at reasonable lengths, and paraphrasing is summing up long dialogue into its key information. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 14:49, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Even when you include the words "only the" in the quote the dialogue on the quest page is still needed to advance the quest, so I honestly do not see how I'm interpreting that quote wrong. The optional dialogue is still included on the NPC page and not on the quest page. The non-optional dialogue for the quests contains information about (for example) where to go next so I truly think it is relevant for the quest. As I asked in my previous message: do you have any place where the requirements you are laying out here are stated?
On a side note, I am willing to have a constructive discussion on the why and how of the formatting and I would appreciate it if you could refrain from the confrontational tone in the future.Gune (talk) 15:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
As you are confusing politeness and factual representation for confrontation, you can stop worrying as this is over. I've undone your incorrect removal from the NPC pages as per the correct way of documenting NPCs so you don't have to, and as per my original polite request to do so. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 15:43, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

(←) Hi Gune. You are right to be confused here as there is a bit of controversy when it comes to ESO quest walkthroughs. You are entirely correct that hosting dialogue on both quest and NPC pages is redundant. However, Silencer is also correct in saying that the NPC page is the place to document all dialogue. Therefore, if you wish to avoid redundancy of data, that means keeping dialogue off quest pages. They're really meant to function more as useful walkthroughs rather than data dumps. Some ESO editors disagree with this (as evidenced by the ONQP and the fact that many quest pages include dialogue), but this is what has led to the redundancy you've identified, as it overlaps with the purpose of NPC pages. —Legoless (talk) 15:58, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your input Legoless. I do wonder if it isn't better to have more consensus about how to place the dialogue, especially with a big project like ONQP going on? As the current ONQP page might just lead to more edits needed to finish quest pages. I can also understand it's hard to reach a full consensus on this. Gune (talk) 16:09, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
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