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Skyrim talk:Crime/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Crime discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Hidden Crimes in major Holds

During the Dark Brotherhood quests i have killed several NPCs in the major holds. If somewhere secluded where noone sees the crime being commited, the deed goes unpunished. If however there are other around (maybe guards) they will react to the murder and my bounty will increase. This is odd since im never detected. The "stealth eye" goes from hidden to slightly open, but never to detected. Yet my bounty increases for that hold and guards will still attack/arrest the next time they see or interact with me. If this is the general bheaviour, then the article needs an update, since hidden (but seen) crimes get justice. --NOiR 10:20, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

A similar thing happens if you kill an imperial guard in one of their regional camps. If the other guards had line of sight to the dead-man at the moment you killed him, then the eye opens slightly and they become aggressive whenever they see you. If the dead-man was out of sight (i.e. he was patrolling the camp perimeter) then you can get away with the crime. To kill multiple guards and get away with it, you must kill them one at a time and do so out of sight from the other guards. I agree that this seems buggy.
P.S. If you use a bow and shoot the guards to kill them, you can use an invisibility potion while the arrow is in flight, to get away with it. IIRC. --TisNag 12:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
You can get away with murder if you kill all witnesses. This does not work in camps though because there is always that one who is part of a storyline so won't die. If there is a main story person who won't die then you can't kill him and therefore can't just kill everyone to get away with murder. — Unsigned comment by (talk) on 27 March 2012

Werewolf and Master Criminal

It has been added on both this page and the Werewolf page that transforming will give a bounty and is thus useful for getting the Master Criminal achievement. I do not think that this should be noted on either page. For one, it's already mentioned that transforming is a crime. It's also mentioned on this page what the requirements for the achievement are. Why should it be notable that transforming gets it easily when killing people works just as well? Should we also note on the "horses" page that stealing x amount of horses will reach that achievement easily?

What does everyone else think? --Velyanthe 17:32, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Velyanthe, there is a section on the Glitches page which contains exploits (for example using the Oghma Infinium to level up to maximum skill). Maybe we could put this tip/cheat here. However, it does not belong there as it is not a glitch. Maybe in the Notes section for this page would be a good place? - deathoflaughter 22:31 GMT, 10 April 2012
I don't think it's particularly notable as a valuable method at all, is what I'm saying. It already is in the Notes section. Transforming into a werewolf in public is the same as murdering in public in terms of reaching the achievement. There's many ways to get bounties, all of which are explained on the page, so why this one is notable I'm uncertain. Vely►Talk►Email 21:38, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
I've removed it and cleared that section for a more realistic read through from a low level player, ie thaneship is achieved after a few quests. The werewolf and bribing have been removed beacuse they are are already listed. The first section is abc'd for easier reading. The Silencer has spoken 22:06, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
The bounty table may be better suited in the overview section imo. The Silencer has spoken 22:22, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Possibly. You'd have to mess about with the wording a bit, or just combine the bounty info with the overview. Vely►Talk►Email 22:51, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

detail of bounty

I found this on the intranet. I think is time to add the detail about bounty. I still dont know why there is always a 5 gold bounty when i commit crime

Getting Caught while Pickpocketing anyone in town

Bounty: 25 Gold


Bounty: 5 Gold

Stealing and getting caught

Bounty: Half of the item’s value.

Mudering Someone

Bounty: 1,000 Gold

Jail Break

Bounty: 100 Gold

Steal a Horse

Bounty: 50 Gold Each Time

Assaulting Anyone

Bounty: 40 Gold

Getting Caught Transforming into a Werewolf

Bounty: 1,000

Giving the Blood of the Vampire

Bounty: 40

(Vvardfell 12:07, 6 March 2012 (UTC))

Excellent idea, I wasn't even aware that they were missing. I'll get to work on making a chart and finding more bounty info. --Velyanthe 18:31, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Bribe Guard (Thieves Guild) - It has never cleared my bounty, it is also listed twice on the page

First, this section appears twice on the page, is that intentional? Due to how the page is set up, I didn't think so, but maybe I'm missing something. Seems like that first Bribe section should be removed, as it fits better where the second listing is.

Second, the second listing states that bribing the guard will clear your bounty:

Thieves Guild members have the option to bribe the guard. The amount of gold required to bribe a guard is usually much larger than the bounty for small crimes, but less than one for murder and doing so will raise the Speech skill, immediately clear your bounty and avoid having items confiscated. The Bribe Guards Speech perk also grants you this option. Note, the bounty cleared is only for the crime you were recently caught doing. If you had some previous bounty as well, this won't get cleared.

This is definitely not true, unless there are multiple bribe guard options - each with different results, or unless there is a bug associated with this. With no bounty, if I am caught stealing/pickpocketing: a bounty is added and a guard will run up. If I decide to bribe him, he only goes away. In other words, you are bribing that particular guard to ignore your crime right at that moment. Your bounty is still listed in the stats page and if you talk to any other guard, they will attempt to arrest you. It is just like the option that makes the guard say you're not worth it to arrest; it only lets you exit that guard's conversation and move on. Is this a bug? It has happened every time (XBox). Or are there two different types of bribing (one for looking the other way and one for illegally erasing your bounty)? --Amsuko 19:59, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I've player Skyrim for a while, but I've never used the normal Bribe perk, only the Thieves Guild version, and it has always erased my overall bounty in that hold for way more than the normal fine. --RandomPlayer268 08:58, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
The option to clear your bounty seems to only work in The Rift for me, but other holds only give me the option of paying them to look the other way, but keep the bounty out. --Darkle ~ Talk 02:53, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
When confronted by a guard with your crimes there are two dialogue options you get from being a member of the Thieves Guild. One option allows you to clear your bounty for an amount equal to the sum of the bounty and the value of any stolen items in your inventory divided by two. When you select it the guard will tell you he can make your problems go away and you get a follow up dialogue option to accept the offer or not. This will clear all your bounties for the Hold (confirmed by using the option after escaping from jail and paying off the bounties for the underlying assault and the escape from jail for 70 gold). The second option is to bribe the guard to look the other way. It's more expensive than the actual bounty and I haven't yet determined what sets the amount of the bribe but it doesn't clear the bounty, it only affects that particular guard, and you can only use it on each guard once. Further this second dialogue option is not available for the crimes of murder or escaping jail. I don't see what the appeal is for this second option, but it's there.--DagmarH 22:31, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
I now see the reason for the second option. The first dialogue option will only become available in each Hold when you complete the Thieves Guild Reputation quest for that Hold so this second bribery option is for use when you haven't completed a Reputation quest for the Hold.--DagmarH 01:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
The more expensive Thieve's Guild bribe is available in every hold, making it useful for those don't specialize in Speech, but want to keep items that are marked as stolen. It has worked for me the few times I've used it before, but I have a bounty of 40 in Falkreath that doesn't go away when I use it. I killed animals, people, guards (half of my murders went unnoticed, and I never actually got charged with murder); this led to me finding out that even new bounties weren't clearing in Falkreath. I finally just used "Pay bounty", and guess what? The guard didn't take a single stolen thing from my inventory. But the bount cleared... There's a bug here that hasn't been pieced out yet. It must be fairly rare, and unless you've murdered someone it's not perilous, but it's annoying. Even guards I shower with enough gold to bury them alive immediately go back to "Wait, I know you." You can ignore them without consequences by simply exiting when you get the dialogue to warn them right before they go into typical arrest dialogue options.-- 20:06, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Sentences for Crimes

Could we get a list of the amount of time you must spend in jail for each individual crime ? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 10:33 on 7 March 2012

Time in jail is based off bounty value not crimes committed, 3,000 bounty = a week in jail 06:36, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Clearing Stolen Flag using Followers

In regards to this information that was added to this article a couple times (as well as to the Followers article):

The stolen flag can be easily cleared from items by storing them in a container then commanding a follower to loot the container. Once done you can trade the item back from him and it will no longer be labeled as stolen.

I removed it from the article because I think it is a very bad general recommendation -- my experience is that having followers loot items from container is far more likely to do the exact opposite, namely change non-stolen items into stolen items (see here and here).

In fact, the only time that I'm sure I've seen a container change stolen items into non-stolen items via a follower, I'm pretty sure it was just a result of the game fixing mistaken stolen flags caused by a follower in the first place. In other words, while in a dungeon I put non-stolen items into a chest and asked my follower to empty the chest. When I took the items back from the follower's inventory, they were marked as stolen. I later put those same items into a container in Breezehome, asked the follower to take them, and they items then reverted to non-stolen status. Since then I've tested having followers take "real" stolen items (items that said "Steal" when I originally grabbed them) out of containers in my house multiple times, and they never lost their stolen flag.

There's clearly something complex going on behind the scenes with the stolen flag -- ownership is being set based on some combination of original owner and the owner of the current container, and then stolen is being determined by comparing that ownership with person who picks up the item (not the person who currently possesses the item). Until we understand that exact mechanic (which probably involves a lot of work reading raw save game file data to check the exact ownership/stolen flags on items in a wide variety of situations), I don't think we can provide any definitive information on how containers/followers can be used to change the stolen flag -- and therefore any recommendations are more likely to cause problems than help readers. --NepheleTalk 17:18, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Shouting in town "crime"

The article page has a verification note for whether shouting in town can result in a bounty (it says "see talk page", but no talk page section for it). Just to (re?)start the discussion, I have repeatedly shouted in towns, been warned by guards numerous times to stop, and shouted some more right next to them. I have never received a bounty for this. --Xyzzy 05:29, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

The {{VN}} template automatically inputs "see talk page" if the user who inserts it doesn't add their own comment. Sometimes people will do this without starting a discussion on the matter, so if you don't see any topic related to the matter, that's probably why. Also, I've had the same experience as you. Verbal warnings, but no bounty. ABCface 05:34, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
OK, thanks. I think that if nobody else responds, we should remove Shouting from the list of crimes. Any objections? --Xyzzy 20:37, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
When looking around for bounty information, I found nothing on shouts. Shouting's also only got me a warning. Vely►Talk►Email 20:43, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
In my process to discover if guard dialogue for shouts changed per amount of shouts, type of shout, etc, I never once incurred a bounty despite at least 100 shouts in front of one (he surely must be deaf by now). It is not a crime, but they do tell you to stop. The Silencer has spokenTalk 20:45, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

() I've only ever selected the "sorry, I'll stop" option. Have we tested that no options in the dialogue tree lead to a bounty? --timrem 20:45, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Tried all dialogue options in deliberate attempts to get a bounty and no luck. The Silencer has spokenTalk 20:47, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
What if you shout a guard over, say the high staircase of whiterun and he falls all the way down to his death? Will you incur an accidental murder witness bounty? — Unsigned comment by (talk)
Many shouts, if directed at a character, will be considered assault. murder, etc and result in a bounty. We are talking about just shouting at nothing. --Xyzzy 04:16, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
It appears that the consensus is that shouting is not a crime. I will remove the entry. --Xyzzy 13:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Misc. offences

I was given a bounty for dropping about six or seven daggers on the ground in whiterun, and choosing the snide option when a guard warned me to stop. Has this happened to others? — Unsigned comment by archduke_franz (talkcontribs)

I just finished trying over and over again to recreate this. I dropped, in various locations around Whiterun, about 30 daggers (individually and as one drop), 30 leather, approx 10 each tableware items, and 30 iron ingots. At no time did any npc comment on any of it, including guards. The only time I received comment is when I dropped armor, then a nearby npc would ask for it. I am really curious if someone can recreate this, because that would mean that littering can cause a bounty. --Xyzzy 20:22, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
I threw down an axe so I could manually grab it and see how far I could fling it when I was bored, and the guards said something about disturbing the peace and weapons being dangerous on the ground, so it is definitely a game mechanic to get a bounty for doing that and refusing to pick it back up. ESQuestion?EmailContribs 21:18, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
One thing I forgot to mention during my testing is that I am Thane of Whiterun. Wonder if this gives you a pass with guards for "minor" offenses? --Xyzzy 00:12, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
The same thing has happened to me, I became the Thane of Whiterun and dropped an imperial sword (legal, not stolen) right in front of the Jarl. Then I went to Faragorn's study when suddenly a guard came after me and accosted me, telling me that it's dangerous to drop weapons. I had the option of being sorry or rude, there was no Thanedom option. Therefore I was rude, telling him I don't care which resulted in him telling me I had to pay 50 gold or go to jail. Therefore being the Thane shouldn't affect this, you are still able to get the fine for it. Given that shouting is listed as crime, maybe this should be added to it? It seems to be related to the guards' line of sight, I managed to replicate it once. -Fel — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 10:09 on 2 May 2012
I encountered this in Falkreath. I dropped the Headsman's Axe and a guard came over and told me not to leave weapons lying around. He then tried to get me to bribe him with 10 gold, which I refused. I then received a bounty of 50 gold. I've gone ahead and added "Dropping Weapons in public" to the page. Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 10:44, 2 May 2012 (UTC)


Since I knew kid's could not be killed, I attacked braith (think about it) and I got a bounty. However THe guards started chasing HER XD So then I attacked everone who wasnt a guard and the guards started attacking them, even at one point, the yarl.

I think this has to do with me being "stormblade" and most guards in cities are now stormcloak. It's worth checking into, and I do reccommend trying it for some silent film chase shenanigans. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 17:08 on 6 May 2012

I just experienced a similar bug in Whiterun. I was practicing my bow accuracy on the cups and vases and overshot killing a maid in Dragonsreach. Since I had quick saved before making a mess and did not want to reload I submitted to the guards and used the Thieves Guild option to clear my bounty. Then I resumed shooting. Much later, I accidentally shot another civilian. This time it was one of the Jarl's children. I immediately sheathed my bow and waited to pay the bounty. However, I did not receive any bounty for hitting the kid, Ireleth attacked me and the guards did nothing. After a couple of unsuccessful surrender attempts I knocked Ireleth unconscious and went to see what the guards were doing. They were chasing the poor kid around, shooting arrows and slashing at him. I am a legate but these were the original city guards so I do not think this effected the guards. I am playing on the pc with the latest patch. Coronus 04:33, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Returning Stolen Items

I've noticed that if you're caught stealing an item of low value or an item from someone you've become friends with, you can speak to the owner of the item and return it to them (as if you were apologizing), which results in a cleared bounty.

Tested with the iron gear on Alvar's table in Riverwood after helping Hadvar, with Niranye after the Summurset Shadows quest, and with various peoples in the rift after becoming thane.

Anyone else want to confirm or test? 15:33, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I -well, my character- was with Arcadia and, since I didn't have the merchant's perk but she already had high disposition towards me, I was taking all the ingredients she didn't sell to me in the display, when by mistake I took a valuable potion I shouldn't have. I froze, waiting for the guard to enter the shop, but it was Arcadia who start yelling at me "What are you doing, you sneaky thief!" or something like that, and she walked towards me and just took the potion from me. There wasn't even a bounty, because I still have 0 in the "total lifetime bounty" and I didn't even speak to her. So, I'm kind of confirming this event too. :D Audrey Gally talk 17:46, 10 November 2012 (GMT)

Ring of Namira

In the article, it states that feeding with vampirism and with the Ring of Namira counts as assault. However, the Ring of Namira has you feed on dead bodies. Does feeding actively count as assault, or just give you that same bounty? Sorry if I'm being unclear. You can't assault dead people, only desecrate them. --Grim765 07:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Feeding with the ring will cause a 40 bounty and +1 to the number of assault's on your crime stats. — Kimi the Elf (talk | contribs) 07:29, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Which hold does the bounty apply to?

Okay, so I'm at Understone Keep in Markarth and there's a locked door. After picking the lock one of Ondolemar's Thalmor soldiers shouts something like "You can go in there if you want but actually you're not allowed here" and adds a bounty of 5 gold but I didn't have the time to read the name of the hold. It's supposed to be a bounty for Reach, right? But Markarth guards didn't try to arrest me. Only when I committed another crime they arrested me and my statistics page shows a total bounty of 10 gold but highest bounty of 5 gold, meaning the Thalmor put a bounty on me for some other region??? Do the Thalmor have their own bounty system? --Nv4dispbluescreen 11:06, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

On a side note, the article mentions you can get a bounty for "reach" when murdering someone in white run. Well, I have gotten a bounty for "reach" when opening some random lock in white run, maybe one of the NPCs is incorrectly flagged as a citizen of Markarth or something? Unfortunately I can't remember who the lock belonged to (perhaps it was Ysolda?), but maybe I can find it out by testing again. --Nv4dispbluescreen (talk) 10:46, 20 September 2012 (GMT)

Selling to fence and rebuying not clearing stolen flag?

I have a stolen dagger I'd really like to keep using, but wound up with a small bounty for trespassing. I've been avoiding that hold, but I can't do that forever, and I don't want to avoid capture by force, and definitely don't want to spend the rest of the game avoiding guards from that hold for a measly five septims. So I went to the Honningbrew Meadery to clear its flag. And the flag wasn't cleared. It still showed up as "stolen" in the buy screen and was still stolen when I bought it back. I tried exiting and reentering the cell after selling it off, I tried waiting a day before trying to buy it back. Nothing worked. I'm playing on the PS3, so no console workarounds here. I also don't have a follower, so I can't use that trick, though if there's no other way I just might go that route. But I'd like to know if there's anything else I can do first. 03:03, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I am not familiar with flag clearing in Skyrim since I have always found I could make the best equipment myself but if you just want to keep the dagger I think you could probably put it in a safe container before paying off the bounty. Or any container for that matter, with only five septims for a bounty the guards shouldn't do anything besides say "Hey, I know you" unless you initiate a conversation with them. If you put it in a nearby container then pay your bounty and retrieve it, you should be fine. The article does seem a bit hazy on the confiscation of items and guard reactions so hopefully someone who is more competent on the mechanics than I am can rectify that in the near future. Coronus 03:28, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
What you can do is quite simply save the dagger by putting it in your house! Dont have a house? give it to a follower. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 12:39 on 9 July 2012
Well, maybe they want none of their items with the stolen flag (I want that too). I went to Tonilia to sell some shields from the holds (because I want the whole collection xD) and when I saw in her inventory, the items still had the stolen flag. I even sold her some unique books I stole from Calcelmo's Museum in Markath and the stolen flag wasn't removed! and they were mere books! So, some books I sell to her were cleared, some of them don't. I tried reverse pickpocketing those shields to Sayma in Solitude and she didn't even showed them in her store inventory. I had to pickpocket her again to take them back. I tried the same with Beirand, since he's a blacksmith, but it was the same result. I have 4 fences and the Merchand perk unlocked, so there shouldn't be a problem... but there is (I don't know if it's just me, or if someone else could confirm? also, I still need to do more research, maybe there's something in the items that prevents them from being cleared -I made those shields legendary before trying to sell them, maybe that's why?-) So, without console commands, what option really works? or there's absolutely no way to clear those tags without being in the pc? Audrey Gally talk 17:52, 10 November 2012 (GMT)

Can animals still be "witnesses" to crimes?

Can animals still be "witnesses" to crimes, or was that fixed in a patch? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 21:53 on 12 July 2012

Playing the latest official version on Steam for PC on July 24, 2012, I murdered Faldrus with a bow sneak attack on a road near Riften and acquired 1000 bounty. A wolf walked over to sniff his body. I shot the wolf, and it gave me the "last witness killed" message and cleared my bounty. 02:18, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Does the bounty message fail to appear sometimes?

Sometimes I get charged with murder by guards in various holds without ever seeing a message about a bounty being added. Sometimes I'm honestly not even sure what murder it is for which my character is being charged.

For just one example, for the Dark Brotherhood, I killed the bride for Bound Until Death without being detected and walked around Solitude with no trouble from guards or anyone else after the deed was done (no bounty message). I live in Proudspire, so there's been plenty of opportunity for guards to stop me afterwards as I walk around town. Later, for To Kill an Empire, after killing the decoy emperor and everyone in the room, then killing the Penitus Oculatus guards that ambush you outside (again, all without a bounty message), I walked down the stairs, into the city, and was stopped by one of the guards for having a 1000 bounty. Some of the other guards just walked by me without saying a word before that, though. I reloaded the game to right before killing the decoy and all the others, did it all over again, and the same thing occurred when I walked into the city. 15:17, 29 August 2012 (UTC)dukesilver

I have committed a crime before and not had the bounty message appear. --Xyzzy Talk 13:57, 20 September 2012 (GMT)
Okay, thanks for the reply--now I know it isn't just me. I look all over the place using Google before posting my question here, but I didn't find anyone else talking about it. Should this be mentioned in the "Bugs" section of the main page for Crime? It seems like a pretty important detail relating to crime and the bugs related to it in the game, at least as important as some of the other bugs listed currently. I'll add it if no one one opposes it. 15:18, 27 September 2012 (GMT)dukesilver

Murder Count Stat Bugged?

Twice now I've had my murder count increase without my being aware that I had "murdered" someone. Early on in the game I had knowingly murdered one person, for Boethiah's quest, and my murder count was 1. But a while later I happened to check it, and it was SEVEN. It seems unlikely that I could murder six people without realizing it and without gaining a bounty. The same thing happened again quite a while later: my count suddenly had two more extra murders. It's weird. With my first character (which I played for a crazy amount of time, something like 500 hours) I never had this issue (or in Oblivion, for that matter). I think I have a very clear idea of what the game considers murder, which makes me think the murder count stat might be bugged. Has anyone else experienced this, or does anyone have an idea of who I might be "murdering"? Username12345 (talk) 19:23, 26 September 2012 (GMT)

I've noticed the same thing with both murders and assaults. I've lost track of how many play-throughs I've had yet each one of them was played while adhering to the stricktest morale code; I've had a LOT of run-ins with this problem and it sucks to check your stats and find assaults and/or murders wrongly attributed to you. I believe that there are a number of instances that can cause this to happen. For example: If a draugr is getting out of his tomb and is attacked before it appears as a red blip on your "HUD-Radar" then I believe the game will count that as assault (yet have not confirmed this). Just had to reload from a save I made two hours ago because of this unfortunate bug (finally putting my foot down on this play-through). Skysword (talk) 03:15, 6 October 2012 (GMT)

Prisoner Abuse?

Every time I end up in jail with this character, the jailers will attack me. They wont accept a yield either. When they kill me, and the autosave loads, they act normally. Antone else have this problem? Ivan the Vandal (talk) 14:01, 17 October 2012 (GMT)

Faction Related Crime

I'm not sure if this has been brought up, but I always found it odd that if I attack, say, an Imperial Guard escorting a Stormcloak Soldier in Whiterun, my bounty in Whiterun will increase, even though I already helped the Stormcloaks take over Whiterun. Is this a bug, or just a weird feature? Am I being silly: Is there some agreement between the Imperials and Stormcloaks which says soldiers are allowed to take prisoners through the enemy's territory without fear of being attacked that I never read or heard about in game? This isn't a major issue, I just thought it was odd and am interested as to why this happens :) Thanks 20:06, 13 November 2012 (GMT)

World Interactions are mostly separate from other actions in the game. If you attack them the mechanics simply register the crime in the Hold you are in. There is nothing more to it, it's just game mechanics. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 20:09, 13 November 2012 (GMT)

Attacking me eveywhere!

I killed this person i solitude in the quest'bound untill death' and now eveywhere i go(even thw wildernes and crypts), a guard appears and attacks me yelling somthing about commmiting a crime agenst skyrim and her peaple, thief!, murderer, or somthing else. Anybody else getting this glich or whatever it is?- THE ULTIMATELY EPIC ULTIMOTO!

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