This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Movement Formulas discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links. 
Formulae
The plural of formula is formulae — Unsigned comment by 84.2.16.8 (talk)
 This is true in scientific use, but in informal use, "formulas" is a perfectly acceptable alternate spelling, and more comfortable for the mostly nonscientific readership on this site. TheRealLurlock ^{Talk} 23:06, 27 December 2007 (EST)
Perk Variables
The exact effect of the various Perk Variables needs to be determined. Since I wasn't entirely sure, here's a copy of that section with my comments. If anybody figures these out more specifically, please modify the main page accordingly.
 fPerkHeavyArmorExpertSpeedMult (Default 0.5) (Presumed to be multiplier for weight of Heavy Armor only.)
 fPerkHeavyArmorMasterSpeedMult (Default 0.0) (Presumed to be multiplier for weight of Heavy Armor only.)
 fPerkHeavyArmorSinkGravityMult (Default 15.0) (Modify gravity when wearing Heavy Armor?)
 fPerkLightArmorExpertSpeedMult (Default 0.0) (Presumed to be multiplier for weight of Light Armor only.)
Since setting fMoveEncumEffect(NoWea) to 0 results in no speed penalty regardless of armor skill, fPerkHeavyArmorExpertSpeedMult and fPerkHeavyArmorMasterSpeedMult mathematically must indeed be multiplication factors to EncumEffectMultiplier (provided the formula is at least mostlycorrect) as that would be the only place that would have the right effect on that term.  Aliana71.9.18.26 07:04, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
Revamp
Okay, as per various discussions, the page has been revamped in the hopes that it's more userfriendly. It could still use someone going through it who has a better eye for formatting than I do, I think, but overall, I think it's geared much more to the average user now. There could also probably be some touchups to the organization of information, but I'm too tired right now, and it might benefit from another pair of eyes, regardless. Robin Hood (Talk • Email • Contribs) 23:55, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
Reworking the Formula
A lot of the information on the current page, such as the impact of height, is extremely questionable. sdt 6, tdt, showracemenu, change to/from Breton/Altmer (tallest and shortest races). Be naked and carrying nothing, and if you're not in the sewers still you'll need to use "player.setav speed/athletics x" since the race change will affect those too.
To start with the simplest parts, assuming a completely naked character with no inventory at all.
The "Base Walking Speed" section is (now) correct, except that the name is wrong. Your Walk Speed is affected by SO many other factors that this needs to just be called "Base Speed". A character with 50 Speed has a TRUE Base Speed of 110.00; one with 100 Speed has a Base Speed of 130. Period. Athletics does not in any way affect your Base Speed.
The only time that you see your true Base Speed is when you are wearing NOTHING that has any weight, have no weapon, and have your fists out.
The "Run Modifier" section is correct (and should probably be the second section on the page since interspersing Creature speed comments just makes the article even more opaque than it already is). A character with 50 Speed and 100 Athletics runs at 440.00.
The "Sneak Modifier" section is correct (and nice and simple).
NOTE: I've changed some of the Gameplay values to simplify testing for this section. Specifically:

 fMoveEncumEffect = 0.25 (default 0.4)
 fMoveEncumEffectNoWea = 0.25 (default 0.3)
 fMoveNoWeaponMult = 1.0 (default 1.1)
For testing purposes, using the console to set the player to 25 Speed makes the math very intuitive, as that gives a Base Speed of 100. For a player with 100 Athletics, the core derived speeds are: Run 400, Swim 52, SwimFast 240, and it's very easy to see where they come from:
fMoveSwimWalkAthleticsMult (Default 0.02)
fMoveSwimWalkBase (Default 0.5)
(0.5 + 0.02) * 100 (Athletics) = 52
fMoveSwimRunAthleticsMult (Default 0.1)
fMoveSwimRunBase (Default 0.5)
(0.5 + 0.1) * 100 (Athletics) * 4 (Run Modifier) = 240
 Encumbrance
That character has 75 Strength, i.e. 375 "lbs" (for readability's sake) of capacity. Load their inventory up with 374lbs of warhammers etc, and their speed doesn't change AT ALL. Equipment carried but not worn has absolutely NO impact on player speed. Equipping ANYTHING (other than arrows), even a ring weighing 0.1, DOES change their speed (to 99.98 for that ring).
A 1lb robe reduces their speed to 99.83. Ridiculously, this means that a Master of Heavy Armor is actually FASTER than a character in clothing.
2lb = 99.67, 3lb = 99.50, 4lb = 99.33, 5lb = 99.17, 6lb = 99.00. That's clearly a linear progression.
A full set of Orcish Armor weighs 121lbs. Equipped on that player at 50 HeavyArmor, their speed drops to 79.75, i.e. 20.25. That fits exactly with the previous results: every 6lbs worn = 1 unit of speed lost. (At 75 HeavyArmor it's 89.88, i.e. 10.12, also exactly as expected: Weight *= fPerkHeavyArmorExpertSpeedMult. (Technically it should be 10.125, but is being rounded)).
(At 100 Speed, i.e. Base 130, their "dressed" speed is 103.68, i.e. 26.32, which is 130% of 20.25, thus confirming that encumbrance is a factor rather than an absolute unit).
A full set of Dwarven Armor minus the helmet weighs 100lbs, and gives a speed of 83.33. So, 2/3 of fMoveWeightMax = 16.67% speed lost, and this is why I changed those values originally, because that makes it obvious that 3/3 of fMoveWeightMax = 25% speed lost, which is, yippee, fMoveEncumEffectNoWea. :D
This also makes it obvious why Feather has such a noticeable impact on speed, which on the original formula was just noted as "we don't know how this fits in".
 Reverting to the default values
Our 25 Speed char still has a BASE Speed of 100, but now has a "normal" Walk Speed of 110, because fMoveNoWeaponMult = 1.1. In 100lbs of armor, her speed is 88.00, exactly as expected: 100/150(fMoveWeightMax) * 0.3(fMoveEncumEffectNoWea) * 100 * fMoveNoWeaponMult = 22 units of speed lost.
Drawing her fists naked cuts her Walk Speed to 100 because of the loss of the fMoveNoWeaponMult bonus, but her dressed speed is NOT the 80 it "should" be, it's 73.33: 26.66 units of speed lost, which can only be derived from 100/150 * 0.4(fMoveEncumEffect).
(Sneaking, dressed, and fists out, her speed is 44.00: 73.33 * 0.6(SneakModifier), as expected).
Equipping a SHEATHED 48lb Dwarven Battle Axe naked drops her to 99.44, a 10.56 unit loss. Why? Because it still counts as "Worn Equipment", so 48/150 * 0.3(fMoveEncumEffectNoWea) * 100 * fMoveNoWeaponMult = 10.56. Those very badly named variables that have "No Weapon" in them are still used in this case.
DRAWING that Axe gets you a speed of 87.20: 12.8 units lost, which is 48/150 * 0.4 * 100.
This finally clears up the exact meaning of those three variables, and explains why the original formula was consistently wrong: because it isn't "really" a single formula, it's two separate ones.
(At 100 Speed, i.e. Base 130, naked and unarmed is 143, and armed but unready is 129.27: 13.73 units lost, again 130% of the 25 Speed case, which helps us order the terms: Base is the outermost factor, so we can have a completely commutative equation if we express Encumbrance correctly).
 Your swim speed assumptions were wrong (one of the drawbacks to using nice round numbers <g>). I've confirmed the formula in game and posted corrections on the main page. Will look at the Encumbrance and such tomorrow; I'm too tired to concentrate on it now. Robin Hood (Talk • Email • Contribs) 23:19, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

 Not wrong, just abridged :P "For a player with 100 Athletics, ...". Thanks for saving me having to go back to it though  I didn't have the energy left at the time. One thing I want to focus on in the rewrite is having what players REALLY care about, which more than anything is simply "why does it take me 2 hours to run through this dungeon, and how do I make it NOT take so long?", explained as concisely as possible at the top of the page, with the math and the "less important" cases (especially Flying) down below for anyone who's really interested in every detail (and the Creature clutter on a different page altogether). Good luck with Encumbrance  if you don't understand why Feather does what it does, just leave it and I'll do a full explanation later. BTW, I threw a couple of (OpenOffice) spreadsheets together afterwards so you can just plug numbers in to dis/prove any part of the calculations: if you want them just let me know.  Aliana71.9.18.26 00:15, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

 Is it possible that flying refers to either jumping or being knocked back by skilled blade/block/blunnt opponents?
The Final Formula(s), complete and simplified
The shared terms are BaseSpeed, SneakModifier, RunModifier, and ...
Base Encumbrance is the total weight of ALL your equipped items apart from arrows, including weapons and even jewelry, and including any ARMOR weight reductions from perks, divided by fMoveWeightMax. (I don't have a full set of Daedric Armor, which is the only way to exceed fMoveWeightMax, so I don't know whether that's treated as 150lbs or 161lbs). We'll just call this the "EqFactor".
Your "Active Speed" is BaseSpeed * SneakModifier * RunModifier.
If you are NOT "combat ready", your Adjusted Speed is:
 ActiveSpeed * (1  (EqFactor * fMoveEncumEffectNoWea)) * fMoveNoWeaponMult
If you ARE "combat ready", your Adjusted Speed is:
 ActiveSpeed * (1  (EqFactor * fMoveEncumEffect))
In other words, you take MULTIPLE penalties in combat. Not only do you lose the noncombat BONUS, but all your equipment "magically" becomes "heavier" too. If you are a Master of Heavy Armor your armor is excluded, but your weapon still becomes an additional 1/3 heavier, which explains the feeling of suddenly wading into molasses when you equip and draw a Daedric Warhammer: at 93lbs, * 0.4 / 0.3, it's equivalent to running in a full suit of Orcish Armor with no Heavy Armor skill at all.
 Giving myself a full set of Daedric Armor using
player.additem
, I was able to determine that 150 is indeed a maximum weight in terms of the calculation. Any armor or weapons you add after that are "free" and won't affect your movement speed at all. So if you're gonna use a full set of Daedric Armor anyway, the molasses don't get any thicker just for adding a Daedric Warhammer. :) Robin Hood (Talk • Email • Contribs) 20:00, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

 Then I was unclear. :( My point was that even if you DO have weightless armor, going from e.g. a sheathed Dagger to a drawn Warhammer raises your effective EqWeight by about 120lbs, and loses you the 10% bonus as well, taking you from essentially 110% of your base speed all the way down to about 75% of it, which is like slamming into a wall. Aliana 20:50, 13 October 2008 (EDT)


 No, you weren't unclear at all. My point was that if you've got a full set of Daedric Armor equipped and your armor isn't at a reduced weight, i.e., you've got <75 Heavy Armor skill, then adding anything else makes no difference. The HUD verifies this, as my character's movement rate went from 110 to 66 with full Daedric Armor equipped and stayed there regardless of the weapon I equipped. For that matter, I could even add or remove one of the 12 lb. pieces of armor and still have it be the same, because 150 is the maximum it will "charge" you for. Robin Hood (Talk • Email • Contribs) 22:37, 13 October 2008 (EDT)




 Ah, I see what you meant. I got the "it's capped at 150" (thanks for testing), but the part after that isn't actually related to the paragraph it directly followed, it's to an earlier one. :)


And The Proof
If these formulae are correct, we should be able to confirm them against SDT 6.
Using "new" stats and equipment just to be sure, we have a character with 75 Speed, 50 HeavyArmor, a full set of Steel Armor weighing 94lbs, and an Iron Longsword weighing 20lbs.
BaseSpeed = 90 + (130  90) * 75 / 100 = 120 EqFactor = 114 / 150 = 0.76
Thus, our "idle" speed should be 120 * (1  (0.76 * 0.3)) * 1.1 = 101.90, and on the HUD it's ... 101.77, which I'm going to blame on rounding errors and the fact that the game doesn't show exact weights.
And our "combat" speed should be 120 * (1  (0.76 * 0.4)) = 83.52, and on the HUD it's 83.36. Close enough. :)
Checking a different character, an 80 Speed, Heavy Armor Master, her EqWeight is 0.7lbs of jewelry, plus Umbra, for a total of 45.7lbs.
BaseSpeed = 90 + (130  90) * 80 / 100 = 122 EqFactor = 45.7 / 150 = 0.30
So "idle" speed should be 122 * (1  (0.30 * 0.3)) * 1.1 = 122 * 0.91 * 1.1 = 122.12, and the HUD shows 121.93.
"combat" speed should be 122 * (1  (0.30 * 0.4)) = 107.36, and the HUD shows 107.13.
QED :D
 I may have typo'd a thing or two since it's very late now: leave comments if you spot something.  Aliana71.9.18.26 13:23, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
 The rounding errors are Bethesda's, in the fMoveNoWeaponMult stage. A Base Speed of 114.00 becomes a "noncombat" speed of 125.00, not 125.40. Aliana 19:52, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
 Actually, going over this, the rounding errors are yours and Bethesda's since they're based on the faulty data displayed to you ingame. Your formulae work precisely when you take into account that a full suit of Steel Armor weighs 94.5 pounds, not the 94 it would add up to ingame. The formulae then become:
 EqFactor = 114.5 / 150 = .76333... (repeating)
 IdleSpeed = 120 * (1  (0.76333 * 0.3)) * 1.1 = 101.772
 CombatSpeed = 120 * (1  (0.76333 * 0.4)) = 83.36
 Similarly, your second example works out to exactly the HUD numbers if you don't round off the EqFactor before you do the rest of the math.
 So, the moral of the story is: trust in TDT, just don't trust ingame weights. Oh and don't round your numbers, cuz Oblivion doesn't. :) Robin Hood (Talk • Email • Contribs) 19:39, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

 Good, because I did originally use 94.5 for Steel, but ended up changing it to 94 when I was trying to pin down the rounding errors back before I noticed the fMoveNoWeaponMult bug. It was irritating me that the numbers weren't matching up exactly. :) Aliana 20:38, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
 Just visited this page for the first time in ages... I'm glad to see that all the painful reverse engineering by plugging primes into game settings to try and figure out how the numbers combined in formulas turned out to be right... I had niggling doubts because I didn't know where the minor errors were coming from. Note that I moved nearly all of my work to CSWiki:Movement_Game_Settings and documented some of my experiments in the discussion page there. Abo 19:29, 11 December 2008 (EST)
Conclusions, i.e. "What does all this mean to me as a player?!"
Well, it's interesting. The end result of it all is: Speed is (directly, at least) a lot less important than you might hope. If you're riding your horse everywhere and using Light Armor / Acrobatics to boost your Speed at levelup, or equipping Fortify Speed items, you'll see very little increase in your running speed unless it's extremely low. At 25 Athletics, a 10point increase in Speed is worth 13 points of "real" base speed, but if that increase is from 45 to 55, you're going from 351 to 364, which is a gain of only 3.7%. Increasing your Athletics by 10 points over that same time WITHOUT boosting Speed nets you 3.1%  only slightly less, and "freeing" up a stat increase for something "important", like Endurance. It's only if you increase BOTH by 10 that you see a "noticeable" jump: from 351 to 375.2, making you 6.9% faster.
But for most players, the overwhelming factor in how fast you move is ... your Armor skill. Even just in Steel, which is "light" by HeavyArmor standards, even if you have 100 Speed and 100 Athletics, you'll only be moving at 401 if your ARMOR skill is under 75. A HeavyArmor Master, or LightArmor Expert, will outpace you at around 55/55. To take an extreme case, if you somehow haven't mastered HeavyArmor by the time you're wearing Daedric and carrying Umbra (for example, if you wore Light Armor for the first half of the game TO increase your Speed as quickly as possible) your "real" speed will be a staggeringlylow *305*  even slower than the slowest you can possibly be in your jail cell at the very start of the game!
As a concrete example, Methredhel, who is certainly considered "fast" if you attempt "May the Best Thief Win" at low levels, has a Speed of 50 and "should" just be a dustcloud in the distance to a Male Breton with 30 Speed. But with her class of Archer not having Athletics as a Major Skill she only has 10 ranks in that, and her 30 LightArmor means she pays the full penalty for her 9lbs of Leather outfit (plus the 3lbs Pants+Shoes, and more importantly, 15lbs for the Mace hanging unused by her side). This works out to a BaseSpeed of 110, a RunModifier of 3.1, and an EqFactor of 0.18, leading to an AdjustedSpeed of 341 * (1  (0.18 * 0.3)) = 322.6 (ignoring fMoveNoWeaponMult since that's a constant). If the player strips naked and unequips their weapon, the EqFactor reduces out of their equation, leaving (90 + (130  90) * S / 100)) * (3 + A / 100) >= 323 as the inequality they need to solve to be able to outrun her. I'll spare you the math, but even with the worst possible starting Speed of 30, that resolves to A >= 16.66r (17, since you can't have a fractional skill). If you used "Run" just through the tutorial and getting to Dareloth's Garden alone, you'd probably already have 17 Athletics and will actually overtake her on the way to Allectus's House even though at first glance her raw Speed makes it LOOK like you'd have no chance at all. :)
 Oh wow  I just had what may well be the greatest revelation in all of this. :D
 As mentioned, the most significant factor BY FAR is your EqWeight and/or ArmorSkill. A Grand Soul Gem feathers 50lbs, and the Blackwood Armor (which is the best you can get before level 10) weighs 124lbs. And, we know that Feather only affects your "current" inventory, so: enchant a few pieces of that set with Grand Soul gems, drop all your other items, and equip the entire set. Net result: weightless armor, with no movement speed penalty at all, essentially giving you the Master perk instantly. I just tried this with a level 6 character (52 Heavy Armor) and it works perfectly: "full" base speed in full armor. :D
 (3 Greater Soul Gems will feather 123lbs, but Grands are actually easier to find at early levels, and trivial to fill if necessary (as Blacks)). Subjacent Sigil Stones are also 50lbs each, and available from level 5.
 Any "spare" Feather can be used to remove some or all of your WEAPON weight, which is the part you can't otherwise get rid of even with Heavy Mastery.
 Aliana71.9.18.26 02:13, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
Lurlock's Comments
 Do we know that that the number shown in the TDT display represents the player's ACTUAL physical speed? As in, have you tested with a stopwatch and a predictable run from point A to point B (say, the length of the Imperial Bridge) with both a tall and a short character to be sure that there isn't any difference? If all you're going by is displayed numbers, you may be missing something. The animation data is the same regardless of character race, but the model is scaled down for shorter characters and up for taller ones. A small model and a large model performing the same animation relative to their scale will move at different speeds.

 That's a really good point, and may actually be true  if that's what the original comment meant then I misunderstood it very badly. :( If it IS true, I'll add it back here in a way that's hopefully a bit clearer.  Aliana71.9.18.26 13:44, 5 October 2008 (EDT)


 All I know is I have done tests like this in Morrowind, and at least in that game there's a definite relationship between height and speed. (I created a mod which allowed you to magically shrink/grow your character via the "SetScale" command, and without any other changes, there was an obvious difference in movement speed. It also affects collisions  smaller characters can squeeze into tighter spaces than large ones. Since all of the locations in the game are built to accommodate the largest characters, this very rarely comes up in standard gameplay, but you can design mods to make it more relevant.) Most likely Oblivion works the same way, but I haven't done the tests to be sure. TheRealLurlock ^{Talk} 19:13, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

 Also, in the future, it would be appreciated if you made an effort to be less insulting to the editors on this site. A lot of people have put a lot of hard work into this, and it's not like we get paid for it. If something is wrong, correct it  but first make sure that you know for certain that it is wrong, and if you don't, post a question rather than calling the page "hopelessly wrong" and demeaning all the work that went into it by implying that the page is not credible. (And no, I'm not taking this personally, as I had nothing to do with this particular page.) TheRealLurlock ^{Talk} 10:43, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

 It's not a case of it being "credible" or not: there are editor's notes on there SAYING the formula is known to be incomplete and/or wrong. Sorry if it came off as insulting: I certainly don't want to rag on the people who put the work in on the original, because I know exactly how much effort it takes to try and sort this out even with a head start from the parts that did test out correctly, because I've just gone through it all myself.... I thought the whole point of a "Discussion" page WAS to talk about and point out errors on the original page rather than edit that directly (unless what I wrote DID end up on the original page instead of the Talk one  hopefully I got it right: can you move it if I got them mixed up please? Thanks)  Aliana71.9.18.26 13:23, 5 October 2008 (EDT)


 Okay, I've undone the "fix" on the Races page but I no longer have any idea where to put the Height modifier in here now. Put simply, Height and Scale DO affect speed. It's easy to test scale  load up your favourite character, run for a bit then bring up the console and type
player.setscale 10
. You will notice a huge difference. Height is trickier to test. I timed a run by a bosmer and an altmer with identical stats and the altmer was somewhat quicker. I haven't confirmed that the relationship is exactly what Deathbane27 added but what I've found certainly doesn't rule it out.
 Okay, I've undone the "fix" on the Races page but I no longer have any idea where to put the Height modifier in here now. Put simply, Height and Scale DO affect speed. It's easy to test scale  load up your favourite character, run for a bit then bring up the console and type



 Aliana, Lurlock is referring to comments like "totally untrue  try actually TESTING this stuff" in your edit summaries. It's great that you're helping to tidy up some of the more neglected areas of the site, but you could be more polite about doing it. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:32, 6 October 2008 (EDT)




 Confirmed. Here's what I did, just for confirmation of my testing:
 Create a new High Elf/Wood Elf.
coc ICTalosBridge01
tcl
out of the dead zone you land in and place yourself at the first stone of the bridge.player.setav speed 0
player.setav athletics 0
 Put fists up.
sdt 6
tdt
 Confirm speed is 90.
sdt 0
 Confirm heading (top right) is 270, or close enough to make no significant difference.
 Use internal timer still being conveniently displayed to time walk across bridge to final stone.
 Results  Wood Elf: ~25.5 sec, High Elf: ~21 sec.
 Time Ratio: 25.5/21 = 1.21
 Height Ratio: 1.1/0.9 = 1.22
 Confirmed. Here's what I did, just for confirmation of my testing:


The more astute among you will notice that the Time Ratio is Wood Elf/High Elf, where the Height is High Elf/Wood Elf, but of course, time is inversely proportional to speed (and by extension, height), so that makes sense. Given those results, I think it's reasonable to assume that Height is a direct multiplier to your speed, even though it's not shown ingame. Of course, to be thorough, we would have to time every last race and make sure that that's the case, but that seems unnecessary here, I think. If someone does feel the need, they're welcome to do so! Robin Hood (Talk • Email • Contribs) 19:01, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
 And not just every race, but every combination of race/gender, as you'll notice there are height differences between male and female characters of the same race in half of the races. It's also possible the weight property may have an effect, because it also scales the base model, but horizontally instead of vertically. To test that, you might take a male and female Dunmer or male and female Nord and compare them, as they have identical height for each gender but different weight. Or compare a male Breton to a male Altmer to see what happens when you have the same weight but different height. TheRealLurlock ^{Talk} 00:52, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

 I tested Height and came to the same conclusions as RH. Weight has no impact (it's trivial to change races to 2.0 or 0.5 weight in the CS). Focusing on Race/Gender is dangerously misleading, because they DON'T "matter" directly. It's not "females are slower than males" or "Bretons are slower than Imperials" though either MAY be true, it's "shorter characters are slower than taller ones", and even that isn't necessarily true in all cases. It's true on LAND, but there are still a lot of unknowns: for example, if you're swimming there's no need for the animation part of the game to scale the movement effects to avoid "sliding" feet, so does it? How much of it applies when Sneaking, where the stride is so much shorter? As to where it belongs on the page, I'd say that since the game applies it after all the gameplay calculations we should do the same.  Aliana71.9.18.26 05:41, 7 October 2008 (EDT)


 Well, given that most players will spend the vast majority of their playtime on land, I don't see that it's necessarily wrong to state that taller characters are faster than shorter ones. Plus  again, until you test it, you can't say that it isn't equally true in water or while sneaking. Animation data is animation data, and if it's scaled down, it's scaled down for everything, so my guess is that it doesn't matter if you're walking, running, sneaking, or swimming. It's more than likely that your height will alter your speed in every case. (This may also be why horses move so much faster despite having a much lower speed attribute. They may be slower relative to the scale of the model, but the model is so much larger  not just the horse but the horse+rider, mind you. Of course horses move deadslow in the water, so evidently something else is going on there.) Anyhow, this is why testing is so important. Making statements like this without testing them first just leads to speculation on top of speculation. TheRealLurlock ^{Talk} 19:24, 7 October 2008 (EDT)




 Horses are probably using the Creature movement formulae where the base ranges from 5300 instead of 90130, though doing the calculations, that means the base speeds of horses would only range from 72.85 (Speed 23) to 102.35 (Speed 33). But looking at some of the other creature stats, I'm guessing that maybe Foot Weight plays a part in the calculations as well as Scale. For example, a Mud Crab has a Speed of 30, but it's got a Foot Weight of 6.0 and a Scale of 0.50. Compare that to Prior Maborel's Paint Horse which only has a Speed of 23 (way slower than a Mud Crab <lol>), but it's got a Foot Weight of only 3.0 and a Scale of 1.00. If we assume that those are straight multipliers (yes, I know, BIG assumption), then the speed ratio of a Mud Crab to PM's Paint Horse, taking only the abovementioned factors into account, would be slightly better than 1:3. More testing would be required to confirm these hypotheses, though. Robin Hood (Talk • Email • Contribs) 14:42, 8 October 2008 (EDT)


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