Oblivion talk:Glitches/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Glitches discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Learn your ABCs, people.

Can we at least TRY to keep things in alphabetical order? This page is chaotic enough as it is without everything being all mixed up. Ah, whatever. Most people probably won't read this anyhow, and those that will are generally the type who are good enough to keep things organized. Whatever. Fixed for now, let's see how long it lasts... -- TheRealLurlock 21:57, 16 June 2006 (EDT)

Yes, please. It took me thirty minutes to get the page in alphabetical order the last time, and it was pretty painful. And thanks for helping keep things in order, TheRealLurlock. --Aristeo 19:10, 18 June 2006 (EDT)

Endareth's Changes

Removed the following text, as it's just how the game works, not a glitch or goof. Endareth 21:44, 28 March 2006 (EST)

If you break out of prison, and get your stuff back from the evidence chest, -everything- will be marked as stolen. Kind of annoying.

The items in the chest were all the stolen items you had on you. Of course the're still flagged as stolen!

If you are actually imprisoned though, you are put in a cell, all of your stuff is taken from you (save 1 lockpick). Is your stuff then marked as stolen when you take it out of the evidence chest (Even the stuff you didn't steal?) Fushi 19:47, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

'Cause it was evidence which you've just stolen, that's why! :D Sure that's a problem, maybe a gripe but definitely realistic behaviour. Imagine a jailbreak, then you steal your own car, evidence in your case, from the police car park... Doesn't matter it's "your" car. "Taking care of fines" should remove the "stolen" flag from everything though.--Vook 07:18, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

Having entered a vampires' den, I escaped outside and a Vampire Archer followed me to the outdoors, during the DAYTIME!

Vampires take sun damage over time, they don't just go "POOF!".

When you sell something to a trader, his amount of gold isn't reduced even when he pays you for it.

This isn't a goof at all. It was just as unrealistic that in Morrowind they regained their max money every 24 hours. This is better because you don't have to walk around to different vendors constantly.

Page Division and Clean Up

I was about to clean this article up, but it was almost too painful to edit. I believe this article should be divided into two: Oblivion:Cheats and Oblivion:Glitches. I can do this if this is something everyone would like to see. ~~In the mean time, I will be marking sections that need to be revised (grammer, etc) with an asterik (*).~~ --Aristeo 17:41, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

Never mind. The whole darned article needs revising... What a task. *sigh* --Aristeo 18:07, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

I'm about to move this article to Oblivion:Glitches because of the "/" in the name Glitches/Goofs --Aristeo 18:27, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

This page is probally best at this spot for now. It gets a lot of traffic, and our major concern for the page right now is cleaning up the article so that the "non-widespread glitches" are removed, and the vague ones are revised. --Aristeo 07:38, 16 May 2006 (EDT)

I agree, though I don't have any strong opinion on the title/location of the Oblivion:Glitches page. Just that User:Horseboy makes a mess of it by flaming, spamming etc. I reverted most and cleaned up the rest of his edits, but... I think the page could really use a split into sections. Something like:

Exploits (game bugs and design decisions exploitable to your unfair advantage - 100% chameleon, permanent bound, duplication)
Tips (counterintuitive exploitable design decisions - rest while swimming, 100% fame.)
Tricks (Doing "forbidden stuff" without any advantage, while require serious effort. Get out of town, get past invisible walls, fall through floor)
Goofs/Bloppers (steal staff from self, ladder in lighthouse - permanent silly goofs that just are there.)
Random fun (Personal accounts of random fun accidents, non-repeatable - Radiant Stupidity, enemies follow you for a week)
Problem bugs (things to avoid: crash game, break quest)

Add, change, modify, discuss or submit for public discussion at will.

Plain bad design decisions resulting in no advantage have their place in [[Oblivion:Gripes]]. [--Vook]

Just remember to Assume good faith, and don't be too hard on the newbie. I agree with you that this page does get a lot of spam in general, and the page should be divided into sections. I like your section titles, but I have a couple of suggestions:

I'm creating a page called "Oblivion:Cheats". Exploits, tricks, and tips should probally go there.
"Random fun" will probally be a spam magnet, and should be in the discussion or not there at all.

--Aristeo 17:13, 16 May 2006 (EDT)

Hey guys, we've done a lot of progress on this page, and I'm thankful that we have such a good team to help organize this massive quanity of information. In fact, some big websites have linked to us because of all of our hard work! Keep it up guys, and know that people are appreciating all of this. --Aristeo 19:41, 18 June 2006 (EDT)

The article became messy again. :( --Aristeo 15:01, 3 July 2006 (EDT)

Maybe splitting the page up into five seperate pages would make it more manageable? The problem with this page is that people will always find new things to add to it, so it will just get longer and longer. (Particularly on those anecdotal ones.) If we split it up into its relative 5 sections, not only will the sections be easier to read through, but we can let the get rid of the abbreviated table-of-contents and let the automatic one run again, which gives you a nice quick jump to existing entries. (Good for preventing duplicate entries, since you don't have to scroll through the whole page to see if something you found exists already.) --TheRealLurlock 15:31, 3 July 2006 (EDT)

Good idea. We probally should give the sections better names though. --Aristeo 16:37, 3 July 2006 (EDT)

Page contact

Should the bug and crash things be moved to the Technical Support page? --FMan 18:57, 31 March 2006 (EST)

Shouldn't this be fixed: Duplicate Items/Unlimited Money section, someone bashes the PC, and refers to a Google search with porn. I would've done it, but I never did this before.

Screenshots

How can I post my collection of the "Acrobat Horses of Cyrodil" screenshots? Horses in different most ridiculous positions thrown there by the game engine, no mods/cheats/codes. I've gathered some so far :)

Option one is to upload the pictures to a free fileserver such as megaupload(.com) and link to them from here. --FMan 14:58, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

Discussion on Article page

Just delete any discussion you find on the article page. If it adds something to the article, feel free to dissect it and include it into the article at your leisure. We just can't waste time holding hands with people who can't place things in alphabetical order, or don't take the time to read some of the importaint policies we have about keeping the talking on the talk page and keeping the attributions off of the article as well. Keep in mind the spirit of what I'm saying, and use your best judgement, as always. ;) --Aristeo 19:41, 18 June 2006 (EDT)

The following are sections that didn't quite make it to the main article. Feel free to discuss them, improve upon them, or delete them as nessicary.

Guards Go Phsyco

They're not looking for "someone to fine" they are "Fleeing", it says it when you catch up to them and activate them (talk to them) its says they are fleeing and most of the time they will try to hide behind another guard or person... its really funny doing it to tons of guards and watching them follow one person like a game of follow the leader :) --Z3RO

Archmage Chest "Bug"

Isn't this a *feature* not a bug? Perusing the quests in the editor one evening I noticed a quest (MG19) that mentioned that the chest in the archmage's quarters is part of a alchemical ingredient service that duplicates a single reagent. Or does this refer to other chests in the archmage's quarters? --Trithemius 18:58, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

"Enchanted Chest" works more or less properly. Other things in the room respawning less so.

Imperial Cult

Isn't the relligion of The Nine the same as the Imperial Cult? The chapels of the nine are in most towns and you'll see quite a few NPC going there to pray, so what's the deal with "faithless"?

Gray Fox Cowl

While sucessfully completing the main quests i realised how usful detect life spell is. so i was getting tiber septim's armor and it happened. as usual my imfamy was 100 and bounty was 3000, not suprising since i was wearing the Gray Fox Cowl. it just so happens to get.... well in one word stuck, now with over 100 hours of gameplay and half through the main quests everyone hates me :( its just not fair.

Yes, this happened to me too, when i used a bound helmet spell, my bounty and infamy stayed with me even after i took the Cowl off. But i just reverted to an older save.

I had a similar occurance (with the PC version) as part of the Sanguine quest. A copy of the Gray Fox reputation overwrote the PC's own. Despite paying off the new bounty and gaining a point of fame (from completing said quest), the fame, infamy, and bounty while wearing the Cowl were unchanged. Removing the cowl again, I still had the modified reputation (Gray Fox minus bounty, plus one fame). I will add, though, that in my experience with the Sanguine quest the Cowl, though equipped at the time, did get unequipped and removed from inventory. So I think this is unrelated to the cowl glitch related to that quest and mentioned in the Glitches page. Not fun times, especially since I was planning to remove the bounty as described in that other glitch (reloading because I forget to take it off before fast traveling to a town after a dungeon got old). Saracoth 21:38, 25 May 2006 (EDT)

As an addendum to the above, I tried again on a hunch and it turns out the permanent overwriting of the PC's reputation may only happen if you save while you temporarily have the Gray Fox reputation without the cowl, and then load that save. I tried again with virtually the same set of actions, the exception being no saving or loading. I paid off my Gray Fox bounty with a Doyen (my PC has no bounty himself), then hit the Sanguine shrine. Before talking to the statue or getting the cowl back, I noticed that simply fast travling had restored my reputation to the non-Gray Fox one (fast travling to the mine just outside Bravil just before this didn't seem to be a problem, however). I noticed this before, traveling directly to the shrine without worrying about the bounty or saving/loading. In that instance I thought I had simply forgotten to equip the cowl beforehand. Sadly, equipping the cowl after all this, I found that the Gray Fox bounty was still intact at 580 o_O Saracoth 22:22, 25 May 2006 (EDT)

Cheydinhal Mages Guild Reccomendation

when i talk to Falcar and get the quest then talk to Deetsan she will not give me the spell or key

EDIT: noticed that she talks to me when he is gone

She says as much when you first approach her, ja?

Just drop stoen items then pick them up again

Just drop stoen items on the ground and then pick them up again -- Poof -- then they are no longer "stolen goods" and can sell them for cash!

Nope, that worked in Morrowind. Here getting rid of the "red hand" requires selling them to a fence and buying them back. But other trick: Drop an item you own. Grab it. Knock an item you want to steal with it. Keep knocking it till it's out of sight of the owner. Steal. Useful e.g. for Bruma countess' akaviri katanas. You can pick lock on the display case unseen, but while crouching you don't see the katanas and if you rise your head, you become visible. So just push one of them out of the case and to a side corridor. (flour bag didn't quite work, but an iron shortsword worked just fine, must be thin to push under the katana to push it out of the case)

Actually, this trick DOES work, but only for some items. It seems to work on all alchemy ingredients. Possibly on potions as well, not sure on that. Things like armor and weapons it definitely does not work on.

no no no, ur doing it all wrong, you dont drop items on things, that LAME. pull out your sword, and smack the item with it, it will go out of sight. quicker and better.

You can use Telekinesis on people's things, they won't mind. Vandy 14:16, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

Added a possible workaround for clavicus vile glitch

I added the below text

There is another workaround but it is tenuous at best. If you have gotten the dog statuette and and you're trying to complete all of the daedra quests to speak with hermaeus mora and get the Oghma Infinium, return to the shrine and either do or do not return umbra, as soon as he stop speaking run away from the statue for about 30 ft, then fast travel somewhere, before the game crashes. when the game finishes loading immediately go into your journal as the dog is talking. This fix has only been performed a few times.

The Amulet of Kings

Funny thing I noticed during the stage of Paradise in the main quest... When you encounter Mankar Camoran, he's wearing the Amulet of Kings - meaning he's a Septim himself...

Edit: Well You could be right, but what i think is that it was his paradise so there was no enchantement that means the amulet slips off your neck, even though when you kill him and then quickly try to equip it it doesn't work anyways :) i guess we'll never know

Moratu: I believe he is also wearing it when you see him for the first time in the Dagon Worship Shrine.

Edit: You don't have to be a Septim to wear the amulet, you just have to have royal blood. Mankar Camoran is a descendant of a previous family that ruled over Cyrodiil. This means he can wear the amulet.

Edit: I think the makers only did this so that you could not pick-pocket him with out killing him (although then how would you leave his paradise)

gota be a septim to wear the amulet, game says so. but its his paradise, his rules i guess

Ya it wouldn't matter if you took the amulet. You still need to kill him to leave.

I don't care... I put in my mod that you get 50% damage reflectiona and spell absorbtion on emperor's shoes, robe and the amulet. You can also wear the amulet!!! (Just remove the script from the amulet of kings and add any enchantment you want!!! --- some anonymous geek

Gray Fox Bounty

In the strat guide to the game it says that when you pay of the Gray fox'x bounty, the gaurds will ignore you and look the other way. Whenever i pay it of it seems the gaurds attack me on site and i instantly get a 500g bounty >.< . Any1 have an explanation?

Explanation: The Gray Fox is immediately recognisable to all law enforcement due to his/her high profile. No amount of bribes is going to deter them from attacking the head of the thieve's guild on sight. The only way to remove the bounty (to my knowledge) is to use the sanguine shrine expoit above. Additionally, if you see a guard running to arrest you, but have no bounty yet, remove the grey cowl and the guards will get really confused. :)

Exit Crash

I removed the "and before returning to game". How is the game to know if the player is going to return to playing or to switch the computer off (and crash only if the player intends to restart the game)?

Duplicate Items on Corpses

Okay, I understand why it was removed, as it doesn't really duplicate items, but it IS still a glitch, and should be included on the page, perhaps with a name change. It's not only a visual bug, but an important one to be aware of, because it can easily cause a game crash, and it's quite likely to occur for people who are practicing their Armorer skill by repairing their fallen enemies' gear.

Phantom Sheep Stealing?

Moved from Article --Aristeo 23:36, 28 May 2006 (EDT)

I was exploring the vineyards outside of Skingrad when I saw a bandit attacking a shepherd. I went over to help out, killing the bandit and looting his body. But after a couple minutes of walking around, I heard "Stop, thief!" and eventually a guard came up to me to arrest me. I had a bounty of 0, but I could pay it off for 1 gold as described in "Zero Bounty Is Costly", above. I hadn't stolen anything, as far as I knew. I reloaded the game and sure enough there were zero stolen items (I had just recently started a new game). I killed the bandit again and this time I noticed that some of the sheep started following me around everywhere. After a minute or so, I checked my character screen to see that my stolen items had ballooned into the 30's, then later into the 70's, just from walking around the vineyard! The second time, I don't think any people or guards saw me, so I was never accosted. I'm not sure whether the sheep have anything to do with this little glitch.

Load Game Bug

Moved from article --Aristeo 23:39, 28 May 2006 (EDT)

Sometimes when starting the game jams right after confirming to load the chosen savegame. This seems to appear if the computer has just been turned on. Apparently Oblivion needs the CPU to warm up first... Seems to be a random glitch in the game. Changing the resolution and loading different savegames appear either to make the problem manifest itself or solve it, in a given instance.

This bug appears with low memory as well, such as after the system has been running for a few hours.

Computers aren't automobiles. Nothing requires the CPU to "warm up;" if anything, it will operate better at colder temperatures. If changing the resolution and loading different savegames appears to make the problem "manifest itself or solve it, in a given instance," then it's probably something else entirely...note that Oblivion also tends to freeze when loading new terrain, especially when moving at high speed (i.e. on a horse) on the world map. These are almost always memory management issues.

Shield Enchantments

Moved from article --Aristeo 10:48, 29 May 2006 (EDT)

With a grand soul, one can enchant a 10% shield or a 9% frost/fire/shock shield. These numbers are abysmal, but reflect the relative strength of dual-purpose shields to simple physical defence. With an appropriate Transcendent sigil stone, one can enchant 20% shield or 35% frost/fire/shock shield. These numbers are nice, and mean that an elemental shield enchantment is in every possible way better than a straight shield. If anyone can find the logic behind this, I'd love to hear it.

edit: Likely while 'standard' shield works like armour (protecting you), elemental shield works like elemental "reflect damage", damaging attacking enemies but not providing direct protection to wearer.

Point in fact if you watch the screen an elemental shield adds its magnitude to your total armor exactly as the standard shield does. It also (I believe, as I know no way to accuratly test this) acts as a resist fire/frost/shock of the same magnitude; IE a 2 for 1 effect.

Grand Champion Name Bug

re: Finally, it seems that at least one of the names you can choose as your Arena name ("The Messenger of Death") is broken, at least on PC. If you choose that name, she'll tell you gro-Malog has headed up to the Arena to challenge you, but in fact he'll stay right where he is and the gate doesn't open. When you talk to Ysabel again you'll start the whole conversation over and choose your name again. Not all the names have been tested, but the first name ("Spellslinger" I think) and "The Crimson Blade" both work fine.

So, I have been looking into this one and am not finding it (UI side or code side.) I am thinking that if there is a bug, it is not in the name choice, but in the timing of dialogue selection or quest stage completion. Has anyone else found more info on this one? I think we should pull it out of the master Glitches page until more info is gathered on it. --stotch 21:09, 4 June 2006 (EDT)

Commenting out the entry for now, please confirm (positive or negative) and restore/delete the entry. --Vook 03:28, 5 June 2006 (EDT)

Doesn't look like a bug. Can't find a single trace of it anywhere in the code. It looks like someone else removed the commented out bug, though. So, I think we are good to go. Give it a week or so (just in case someone finds evidence to the contrary) and we can wipe out this discussion too. --stotch 04:16, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

Misc today's removals

Elemental better than normal: It provides at least equal amount of protection as normal shield spell, not sure what more it gives, but it gives, so it's better than plain. Plus just stronger. I have one explaination: Purposedly unballance the game, make some items "unfairly" better than others just to make it more fun, "blah, plain shield", "Wow, elemental!"

Rockshatter: Plain exploiting of misdesign. Imagine the Orrery mission if Dwemer artifacts had realistic weights. A nice Cog of 80 pounds. At least 3 roundtrips. And the "burden" spell suddenly gets very deadly for both sides. But no, quest items, zero weight. Silly. (Of course undroppable with full weight would be annoying beyond belief, so it was a must. But droppable plus compass marker, or just an icon "quest item" like magical, stolen, poisoned - "handle with care", if you misplace it, your fault, you have been warned.

BTW, many "quest" items don't get removed from inventory when all the rest is. I could kill the guard of Mythic Dawn with unenchanted Blade of Woe after giving up all my items. Does that trick work with Rockshatter as well?

Escape from/Get Into through ~TCL~: The whole idea of "escape from" glitches is that they don't require debug tools like the console. They are tricks exploiting mistakes, not misuse of tool intended for developers. Sure you can TCL to/from everywhere. You can do everything from console if you just know how. There's even a separate page for it.

Zero Bounty: This is a glitch. If the policeman hands you a speeding ticket of $0,00 by exceeding the allowed speed by 0,000 miles per hour, how are you going to manage it? Send in a cheque for $0,00 ?

If picking up items is a crime, it should create a bounty of non-zero amount. If the bounty is zero, there was no crime. --Vook 04:19, 1 June 2006 (EDT)

Two Kinds of Vampire Dust

This thing needs to be moved out of the main article until someone comes up with a 100% doubtless, confirmed explaination - maybe listing of locations of Dust A and Dust B?

The Answer

There are two kinds of Vampire Dust. The information was pulled straight from TES Construction Set:

VampireDust (Vampire Dust)

Found on all vampires except the vampires of Bloodcrust Cavern during the Mages Guild quest "Information At A Price" and sometimes found in chests, coffins and other containers owned by Vampires.

MG13VampireDust (Vampire Dust [rare type])

Found on the following vampires in Bloodcrust Cavern during the Mages Guild quest "Information At A Price":

MG13Vampire01Warrior (Bloodcrust Vampire Warrior)
MG13Vampire02Spellsword (Bloodcrust Vampire Spellsword)
MG13Vampire03Mage (Bloodcrust Vampire Mage)
MG13Vampire04Warrior (Bloodcrust Vampire Warrior)
MG13Vampire05Battlemage (Bloodcrust Vampire Battlemage)
MG13Vampire06Assassin (Bloodcrust Vampire Assassin)
MG13Vampire07Rogue (Bloodcrust Vampire Rogue)
MG13Vampire08Sorceror (Bloodcrust Vampire Sorceror)
MG13Vampire09Spellsword (Bloodcrust Vampire Spellsword)
MG13Vampire10Mage (Bloodcrust Vampire Mage)

You can drop the MG13VampireDust in the Enchanted Chest to create normal Vampire Dust.

Conclusion: This is not worthy of being logged as a Glitch, as it appears to be completely intentional that there are two kinds of Vampire Dust and there is a way to convert the MG13VampireDust to normal Vampire Dust by following the same Mages Guild quest thread. --stotch 22:14, 10 June 2006 (EDT)

This is also the case with the Bonemeal that you acquire from the Deranged Zombies that you kill during the Skingrad Recommendation quest. The problem of using the Bonemeal can be solved in the same fashion as with the Vampire Dust. --stotch 04:28, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

I copied all this info onto a new page, Oblivion:Vampire Dust, to make it more easily available to everyone wondering about this problem. (Perhaps this needs to be done for Bonemeal, too, although there aren't as many consequences to the bonemeal duplication)--Nephele 14:32, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

Necromancer Artifacts

After you complete the quest which you return the Necromancers Amulet and that Conjuration helm, Traven says he'll hide it somewhere in the tower. Does anyone have any idea where to find them if they still exist? the amulet is extremely powerful and should still be able to be aquired. Iv pretty much searched the whole university....apart from that imperial something door in the lobby that can only be entererd after you download a patch of xbox live....if they are possibly to get please post it here.

Edit: He doesn't actually put them anywhere. If you really want them, use console.

Part Answer: There is a mod for the PC version which places them in the Archmages room so when you become archmage you can pick them up (I dont think it is possible for xBox though)

Xbox Answer: Do the Sanguine Daedric Shrine Quest with those items equiped and you'll have their effects permanently.

Is there any way to have it in your inventory for Xbox 360 and still complete the quest?

Direction Of The Page

So, the Glitches page is getting very large, but only a certain portion of it is actually related to glitches. Perhaps it is time to move the non-bug-related content to the Tips and Easter Eggs pages. Eh?

Also, I don't know much about Wiki templates, but I am thinking that the Glitches page should have a template for new entries that inserts a "Game Version=" field, since we do have verions/patches to factor in with bugs/glitches.

Lastly, I did some sping cleaning on the Glitches page. Hopefully people can clean up after themselves and not track mud on my beautiful floor from now on. ;-) --stotch 04:36, 14 June 2006 (EDT)

We should really move most of the exploits out to various tips and tricks pages. This page is for glitches/bugs. Topics like Easy Target Practice and Easy Target Practice II should be on the Marksman page. Easy Pickpocket Targets should be on the Thieves Guild. Perfect Invisibility should be on the Sneak page.

I could go on and on. Does anyone mind if I move a large portion of the Other Exploits out to more appropriate pages and attempt to trim this page down to strictly bugs and glitches? --stotch 06:01, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

I agree. Each of the items you list isn't a glitch in the game, just an interesting consequence of normal gameplay. In other words, they are not things that Bethesda is likely to fix/modify in future patches. And in fact Perfect Invisibility already has a section (100% Chameleon) on the Sneak page.--Nephele 15:20, 25 June 2006 (EDT)

Unable to Continue Arena Matches

Hi, i encountered a not yet mentioned problem: when i try to continue the arena quest, the guy tells me that he too would prefer to have matches during the night, but yellow team needs its beaty sleep. he does that all day long :-/ no chance to continue the arena quest. hasn't anyone had this problem before? --Treysis 20:15, 17 June 2006 (EDT)

Glitch with Dead Drop #7 i think (Lucien Lachance AI?)

Hey, im new to this website, and i have just been browsing and finding some really helpful information. I'm not sure if this has been submitted, but when i killed the Listener of the dark brotherhood, when it says "Your skin feels icy as a familiar shaddow approaches you" Lucien Lachance just stands infront of me, and doesent say that "i shouldnt of done this" blah blah "your drops have been changed etc. Has this been fixed in the recent patch? I've reverted back to saves and it still keeps on stuffin up for me. (not sure if this is a scripting error or whatnot)

Thanks for the help,

Jab

Mages guild quest (Seer's Stone quest)

I have the amulet, and i have talked to the woman who im supposed to give it to, and she keeps on saying "Nothing has changed child... etc" and i have just installed the patch, is this a glitch/bug? Or is it just me? Has it happened with anyone else?

Talk to her about the amulet (same topic as when getting the quest). --Vook 09:55, 20 June 2006 (EDT)

I would if i could, all topics are in gray, and the "Seers Stone" topic isnt there.

I don't remember the exact topic but I remember it IS in gray. Use it nevertheless. Ah, by the way, did you take care of the mage that shows up after you grab the amulet? Or did you just sneak/zip past him and ignored him?

Not sure, can't say i remember, ill go check.

Talk to Agata, if you have not already. You should get a quest update after talking to her, then you must talk to Dagail. The new topic should be something about your Recommendation. --stotch 05:12, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

Something went wrong with mine and I couldn't find Kalthar anywere so I came to her with the amulet but she didn't have the topic fo Seer's stone. I had to re-visit the fort about five times before I found him. --- Some anonymous geek

Note from "Book with False Information about Recharging Items"

Removed this note from the main page:

NOTE: This confuses me. There are golden nuggets in Oblivion, and you said that this book can be found in Oblivion. So, cant you get the book and a golden nugget, and travel to an Ayleid well and get your items recharged?

And clarified the last statement of that glitch entry a bit. Yes, the book is completely false. It was carried over from Battlespire, where these instructions did work, but in Oblivion, this method of item recharging does not work at all. -- TheRealLurlock 23:49, 22 June 2006 (EDT)

Easy Pickpocket Targets

Easy Pickpocket Targets of the "Other Exploits" section reads more like a bundle of thievery tips than an actual exploit. It also has some errors in it. Should we just remove it for now or toss it into the Thieves Guild page? --stotch 05:34, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

Mounted Guards Annoyance

Moved from the main article

If you ever try to talk to a mounted guard while you yourself are on horseback, the game will think you're trying to steal his horse, even though it shows the 'talk' icon rather than the 'horseshoe' icon. Doing so will result in the guard immediately arresting you, demanding you pay a fine or go to jail for your "crime", and confiscating any stolen property you may have on you. This happens whether you click on the horse or the guard. If you ever want to talk to a mounted guard, make sure you dismount first. **Apparently, this is fixed in the official patch, at least for some people.

I know for a fact this was never directly a bug, as I used to talk to guards all the time on horseback (while my character was on horseback) even before the beta patch was out. It may, in fact, be related to a bug. But what bug is it? Under what circumstances does it occur? Perhaps it is due to a corrupted save-game or missing data in the ESM. It would be good to know these anwers before placing this "bug" back into the article. --stotch 16:14, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

I'd say that even if we don't know exactly what the bug is, it's still worth mentionning on the main page, because it's a real pain to have to deal with when it does happen. (Resisting arrest and then clearing bounty, or paying fine/going to jail and then having to steal your stuff back, or reloading an old save and potentially losing a lot of progress, all of these are a real hassle for doing something that shouldn't be illegal in the game.) Maybe add a disclaimer saying that it's not known exactly under what conditions the bug occurs, but that it's in general not recommended to talk to mounted guards while on horseback. I know many people have run into this glitch, so it's not an isolated incedent. --TheRealLurlock 16:58, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

Final Thieves' Guild Quest

I've run into a glitch which is preventing me from completing the final Thieves' Guild quest. I brought the wedding ring to Countess Umbranox, and the cutscene which shows the Gray Fox revealing himself to her plays. Afterward, though, the Countess turns and sits in midair facing her throne, and the Fox leaves the room. I am unable to move from this point. The only control which works is the right thumbstick, so I can look around, but I can't go anywhere or do anyhting. This has happened repeatedly. Any help? --AlmenCrosse 22:30, 4 July 2006 (EDT)

This is happening to me too, playing the PC version of the game. I've tried backing up to a couple of earlier saves, but this happens every time. I'm using the just-released 1.1 English patch (final version). Help! --Sheppy 00:27, 10 July 2006 (EDT)

I've learned that I can force this quest to continue, seemingly normally, by issuing this command at console:

player.placeatme 00014653

This forces the Grey Fox to be put in front of me again, at which point he initiates his conversation and the quest continues. --Sheppy 01:49, 10 July 2006 (EDT)

Worthless Fortify Alchemy Enchantments

As far as the reason these don't work, it's very definitely a game-balance issue. Anyone who ever played Morrowind seriously can tell you how ridiculously over-powered Alchemy was. All you had to do was whip up a Fortify Intelligence potion, drink it, whip up another with your improved intelligence, and repeat ad-absurdium, and you were basically a god. There was a famous video that circulated for a while of somebody completing the Main Quest in under 15 minutes just by using this technique. Now, Oblivion prevents this in three ways. First, you can only drink up to 4 potions at once. Secondly, Fortify Alchemy does nothing. Finally, Fortify Intelligence potions are rather hard to make. They can only be made by ONE pair of ingredients at 50 Alchemy skill or higher. Before that, the attributes aren't available. This means that a level 1 character has pretty much no chance of making one, since no amount of Fortify Alchemy will make those ingredient effects available any sooner. Of course, since all enemies are leveled, you could still complete the main quest at level 1 just by not ever levelling, but whatever. --TheRealLurlock 22:50, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

I don't agree with this comment just added by Quillan, so I'm moving it here to allow discussion:

Your skill level appears to have no effect on the resulting potion. The Alchemical Brilliance enhancement does change what effects you can use, if it pushes you into another category. I've confirmed that spells with the fortify alchemy effect will not do this, and I'm unsure about the unique items.

Skill level does have a very clear effect on the strength of your potions. See the equations I've posted at Alchemy for numerical details. Why do you think skill level has no effect?
I've tested worthlessness of fortify alchemy (actually various combinations of fortify/damage/drain alchemy/luck) effects using spells, potions, custom enchanted items, and the unique items listed on the glitches page. No effect on potion strength; no perks from being pushed into next category.

--Nephele 23:02, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

It might be because I haven't followed it that closely, or it might be just luck as to when I checked or which particular potions I was making when I checked, but the only time I've seen differences in potion results were either when I moved into a new class of skill level, or when I got a better piece of gear. Back in Morrowind, I'd brew a whole batch of practice potions and I'd see a definite progression as the skill would increase, both in magnitude and duration. In Oblivion, I took a character, ran around to every tavern and alchemy shop in Imperial City, spent 3000+ gold on ingredients, harvested everything I could find from plants in the city, then made potions with it. After it was done, I had 50+ Restore Fatigue potions with exactly the same magnitude and duration. Weights varied, but that was all. That's why I don't think skill matters. Alchemical Brilliance does give you new perks, at least below the master level. If that extra 15 points pushes you over the top into a new rank, you'll be able to see new effects on the ingredients. Quillan^Talk 07:31, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

I've gone through the collect-every-ingredient, raid-every-store then mass-produce routine a few too many times now (that's how I collected most of my data on potion strengths). My suspicion is that if the weights of your 'restore fatigue' potions varied, there were some small differences in strength (but probably so small you didn't care).... potion weights only reset when the effects change (see Oblivion:Alchemy#Weight). But the effects will definitely be small. In case some hard numbers help my case, here's an example. If you're using all novice equipment, the strengths of your 'restore fatigue' potions will be:

at alchemy 64-68 8 points for 32 secs
at alchemy 69-73 9 points for 33 secs
at alchemy 74-79 9 points for 34 secs

And to go from level 64 to 79 probably requires mixing up ~300 potions. So I can easily imagine that you might mix up 50+ potions while going from level 73 to 75, only see two potion strengths, and assume the change in strength happened when you hit 75 (whereas there is in fact no bump that happens just because you hit a new skill perk level). I think this may be a case where not having played Morrowind (yet!) helps me, because I don't have Morrowind-based expectations.

Oops! Just noticed that a comment I thought I'd added in to the conversation further up somehow never made it.... So just to summarize that comment, too. The per-level increase in potion strength is only about 1%, so as you look at 'weaker' effects, it gets harder and harder to see the per-level increase. ('Paralyze' being the absolute worst case). I've done my most extensive testing using 'Feather' potions, which have such high magnitudes/durations that you can see every individual level-up effect (I've posted relative maximum strengths of all potions at Oblivion:Alchemy_Effects if you want to get an idea how they all compare). Restore Fatigue potions are somewhat insensitive; as you can tell from the numbers I provided, it takes about 5 levels of skill increase to get a 1 second increase show up in Restore Fatigue.

So, I'm not trying to sledge-hammer you into agreement, here. I'm just trying to put some of my hard-earned findings on these potions to good use and share some of what I've learned along the way! --Nephele 16:15, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

No need, that sounds completely reasonable. I haven't done that much testing, and I don't recall precisely what my skill level was at the time, so I might have just happened to hit it in such a range that the effects weren't noticable. Like you, I've noticed that paralyze just never lasts more than 2-3 seconds. The changes in effects are much less pronounced than they were in Morrowind, that's certain.Quillan^Talk 19:11, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

"The Line" question

From this glitch/goof, entitled "The Line":

The Line

  All the way south of where on the map is says "PROVINCE OF CYRODIIL" there is an odd line that when you walk to it shows as if you are falling a short way down then being brought back up, and repeat.

I'm confused, exactly where on the map are you talking about? If you mean players have to actually walk to where it says PROVINCE OF CYRODIIL on the map, you use the "climb out of cities" glitch, right? Or what? I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, maybe a screenshot would be useful, or a more detailed description of the glitch.— Unsigned comment by Sigaven (talk • contribs)

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