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User talk:Nephele/Archive-2006-10

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a really stupid questionEdit

i'm breking my head and i still could not find the way i throw something... i mean... what do i have to do to throw an item... always i'm over-encumbred i must quickload because i don't know how tothrow my item away! pliz answer me fastly

(all this in the Oblivion)— Unsigned comment by Niko (talkcontribs)

If you're on a PC, shift+left click on an item in your inventory will make you drop it. If you're on Xbox, the X key will make you drop it. I hope that answers your question --Nephele 11:15, 14 September 2006 (EDT)

Alchemy calculatorEdit

Some discussion at Oblivion Talk:Alchemy#Sort List by Effect has spurred my interest in setting up some type of alchemy calculator page. Clearly, it's not something that can be done in wiki, which presents the first two stumbling blocks: what type of scripting (all I can offer is CGI in perl), and how to host it.

But beyond that, I have a bunch of ideas for actual content. I know there's already something at Oblivion Alchemy Wizard, which is really nicely put together. But I find that when I use it, I'm just not quite getting all the info I'd like to help me really put together powerful multi-effect potions. So I'd like to go a few steps further.

  • Show what the magnitude and duration of the potion are.
  • Program in a bit more information about the effects and ingredients, so more intelligent ingredient combinations can be presented (i.e., don't just suggest the first ingredients that work alphabetically, but look for ingredients with other synergistic effects; don't suggest potions made up using painted troll fat unless the user explicitly asks to include quest ingredients)
  • If you're presented with ten different ingredients that provide the effect you're looking for, make it easier to compare those ten ingredients, and quickly see which pairs give harmful side-effects and which pairs give bonus good effects.

I think this is all very doable and I'm starting to fiddle with a CGI script putting it all together. Is there anyone else who thinks this would be useful? Is there anyone who can help with the logistics of how/where to get something like this up on the web? (I only have access to servers at work, where there's no way I could get away with posting anything).--Nephele 22:26, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

RuneHQ, a popular fan site for the game Runescape, has a number of interactive calculators that they use for determining how much experience you need to reach your next level for a particular skill. You may find this useful, though RuneHQ's calculators are in PHP and Java (not sure if that's available on wikia), as they are very successful and most are written by the same person, who you could contact for more information. You could either get me to send him a message, or you could sign up for a free account on the site and contact him yourself. His identity on RuneHQ is Oblivion590. Hope this helps.--Werdnanoslen 22:44, 11 August 2006 (EDT)
Some sort of calculator like this is a good idea. If you're still working on this you're welcome to use the site for testing. Just send me the scripts and I can upload them to a 'secret' test area or something. -- DaveH 17:57, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

Oblivion Quest CategoryEdit

I find the way This category sorts the quests absolutly annoying. For the most part it list every quest under "O", probably because they are all Oblivion:QuestName. But a few like:

  • Oblivion:A Brotherhood Betrayed
  • Oblivion:A Brush With Death
  • Oblivion:A Kiss Before Dying

Are under the "A". I would like to make them all sort by the quest name (so they all don't show up under "o"). But I just don't know enough about wiki. It apears that every quest in the wrong sort section has someting like this - Category:Oblivion-Quests|Nephele/Archive-2006-10 AND Template:Oblivion Quests Cheydinhal Trail But the ones in the correct sort section just have the bread crumb template without the quest category explcitly added? So should I remove the Category line from the quests that don't sort right? somehow that seems wrong. I guess the template must take care of adding it as a catagory? -- Lorenz03Tx

This appears to be a glitch with this version of the wiki. The only way we have found to fix this glitch, is to edit the pages that wrongly appear under "O". Note that making an edit and reverting it will still fix the page, but anyone who wants to go through and fix these pages via editing/reverting will need to excercise caution not to look like a vandal. Appropriate edit summaries and discussion comments when appropriate can greatly diminish the chances of being percieved in a negative light. With this being said, if you feel comfortable fixing these pages, by all means do so. If not, I can do it later. --Aristeo 09:23, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
So does that mean once that page has been touched, it will "fix" itself and stay that way. Or that it will be "fixed" for now. Until another edit comes along and the glitch you spoke of gets magically trigered again? --Lorenz03Tx
I had to move the quest pages, as some of them were listed as subpages. I think it has something to do with moving the pages, but I'm not 100% sure. --Aristeo 09:37, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
Would you guys stop editing my talk page so I can talk! :)
My version of Aristeo's comment, posted at the same time:
Yep, I saw your note over at [[Category talk:Oblivion-Quests]] which ended up spurring a lot of activity. At this point the underlying problem has been fixed, but each page will only get resorted when it is edited. The {{Template:Oblivion Quests Cheydinhal Trail}} is what is supposed to be on each page: that pulls in all the formatting at [[:Template:Oblivion Quests Cheydinhal Trail]], including the category tag(s) that are on that template page. If you see a page with a [[Category:Oblivion-Quests|{{PAGENAME}}]] line as well, that line is actually a duplicate and can now safely be removed. But I think most of the messed up pages do not have the category line (in fact, I don't think any do at this point; I tried to get rid of them last night). But to stop my rambling and get to the point: if you want the category page to look right, you need to go through each of those unsorted pages and make some type of edit to the page (find a typo, find a missing link, or just an extra blank line somewhere) any type of change (you can click minor edit and just say "refresh" as the summary). It's alot mindless work, which I just haven't bothered to do, but feel free to take it on yourself. --Nephele 09:28, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

Hmm. Still there. Anyone know how to make this page NOT show up in the Quests category? --TheRealLurlock 09:34, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

Category:Oblivion-Quests --Aristeo 09:38, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
And nope, the glitch won't come back. The real underlying problem is fixed forever --Nephele 09:43, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
It's still there, at least for me. Refresh doesn't do anything... --TheRealLurlock 09:47, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
Fixed --Aristeo 10:07, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
Aw, shucks, I don't get to be a quest? --Nephele 10:39, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
Nope, but you can be a playable charactor! That's one step up from being a NPC! :D --Aristeo

I finished editing the "A"s (you can always add some links to a page!). The catagory page is starting to look so much better, thanks guys! --Lorenz03Tx 25 July 2006

Just to ruin the party, I'm starting to wonder about the next problem that may arise here: all the quests that start with "The". Would we prefer to have them sorted by the first real word? At the moment that would require the page name to be, for example "Defense of Bruma, The". We could set up so that there is a redirect under "The Defense of Bruma" and most people are oblivious to the ugly name. Or we could just ignore the sorting of those pages, say good enough for now, and wait for a wiki upgrade. I'm pretty sure from what I've been reading at mediawiki that it should be possible define a parameter, i.e. 'sortname' that defaults to PAGENAME, but can be overridden for specific cases. In other words most of the quests would be completely unchanged; just those few that start with "The" would have a small change to their template call. There are examples along that line at mediawiki, but last time I played with some of their examples they completely failed here, because our wiki is out of date. So that's kind of discouraged me from investing alot of time in trying anything fancy until something changes. --Nephele 15:28, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
Not to mention the ones that start with the article "A", kind of the same argument as "the". I'm quite happy that they arn't all under the letter "O" now. Thanks again for fixing the template --Lorenz03Tx
That's easy to do. On the category entry that looks like [[Category:Oblivion-Quests|{{PAGENAME}}]], change the {{PAGENAME}} to read Defense of Bruma The. ([[Category:Oblivion-Quests|Defense of Bruma The]]. No page name changing required :D --Aristeo 15:46, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
Hmm, I had an edit here, and it disappeared. Maybe I'm just imagining it. Anyhow, I was going to bring up the issue of whether NPCs should be ordered by last name instead of first name? (Assuming they have 2 names) Might be interesting to have the whole Sintav family all in one place, for example. Is that too much work, or what? --TheRealLurlock 17:10, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
Not something I'd want. I don't want searching more complicated than it already is for readers. --Aristeo 17:23, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

Re: Aristeo's suggestion (3 back). It won't work because the individual quest pages don't have any category entry on them; they're all getting the category from the generic template tag. So you can't easily override the category's name unless you provide some type of parameter to the template. Check out The Defense of Bruma: there's no category tag that appears on the page itself. (Then as for what happens if you provide a second category tag on the page itself that contradicts the template's category tag, I don't know: two entries on the page? is there a precedence order?) --Nephele 19:04, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

It'll work. If you have two or more category entries into the same category, the wiki software will pick the last. I tested this myself on the Oblivion:Defense of Bruma quest. --Aristeo 19:16, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
Aha, great! So you're saying as long as the order on the page is template tag first, then category tag, that category tag will win out? For once there's actually an easy solution --Nephele 19:25, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
I didn't know if it would work or not before I tried it out ;) I just had a spark of hope in the back of my heart. --Aristeo 19:27, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

Xbox versionEdit

If you need to find out anything about the xbox version of oblivion such as the differences from the PC version or any other things like item locations, just ask me. - ChadFromCky

Thanks! You have both XBox and PC? I'll probably be coughing up the money in the next couple weeks and getting a PC copy myself. Just getting too curious about console commands and construction set... --Nephele 00:36, 26 July 2006 (EDT)

Didnt realise that you had it, im trying out each race and also finding lots of ways of leveling up quickly too!, one is to swim the whole length of lake rumare around the imperial city whilst killing off every mudcrab i see on the shore with either a blade weapon, a blunt weapon, a bow and arrow or destruction magic, I leveled up 5 levels (3 - 8) in half an hour. - ChadFromCky

Night Eye vs. NighteyeEdit

I've been using the in-game names for these. Even though the spell effect is 2 words, most items it appears on it's only one word, so I think that's the one that should be used. --TheRealLurlock 22:06, 26 July 2006 (EDT)

MentorEdit

Can you mentor me? As I am new to all of this. - ChadFromCky

Sure. Let me know what you need help with. If you prefer, you can email me (there's a link at the bottom of the sidebar), or else try the chatroom, I've been there pretty often lately. --Nephele 22:20, 26 July 2006 (EDT)

Thanks, where is the chat room, how can I get to it? - ChadFromCky

Check out UESPWiki:IRC for info on the chat room. --Nephele 23:36, 26 July 2006 (EDT)
How do i put an extra column in a table? - ChadFromCky 17:14, 27 July 2006
You'll need to insert one extra cell in each individual row. The lines starting "|-" mark the start of a new row. Within the row there's a few different ways that cells are separated: you might see "||", or "!!", or even just "|" at the start of the line. Just compare what you see in the edit screen with you see in the preview. Go through each row, and mimic what you're seeing to add another cell with whatever you want in it. Best thing is to try it out somewhere; if you have any problems, go ahead and post the messed-up table, leave me a note, and I can take a look and see what's going on. (Until tonight, my talk page is the best way to contact me) --Nephele 13:02, 27 July 2006 (EDT)
I have done the table with your help (it took a while because I had PC trouble) if you want to look i have added the offerings list on the daedric shrine table.— Unsigned comment by ChadFromCky (talkcontribs)
Looks good! --Nephele 12:28, 3 August 2006 (EDT)
Is there any information you would like me to get?, such as info on places or any books or anything?, ill be happy to help! --ChadFromCky 20:03, 6 August 2006 (EDT)
I noticed you added in Palla volume 1 today... nice work figuring out the templates. It prompted me to spend some time figuring out how to deal with multivolume books like Palla; I added some formatting to provide links to volume 2 and the whole book.
If you're looking for other things to do, the best place to check for ideas is the Task_List. At this point, most of the books have been filled in (although there may be some other multivolume books that need some reorganization). There are a few places that are still missing info (Arkved's Tower, Fathis Aren's Tower, Sancre Tor, Dark Fissure, Lake Arrius Caverns), but they're all quest-related places (I filled in the last couple non-quest places over the weekend). So not too much that can be done in those areas. --Nephele 22:26, 7 August 2006 (EDT)
Thanks, I'll check those places later on, ill note down what i find (i have 1 level 44 character and 1 level 1 character so i can see what the changes are through the level system). I was also thinking if there should be an article on all the quest related NPC's which CAN die so people know who to watch out for because most of them offer rewards (saving Farwil Indarys leads you to receiving either the Thornblade or the Staff Of Indarys, or saving baurus in the sewers when you get MD commentaries V4 can give you a few skill points in blade off him later on in the game) --ChadFromCky 16:34, 8 August 2006 (EDT)
By the way, I just got to say thank you for making me feel welcome on UESPWiki, you have really helped me get use to all the editing things and how things work on Wiki. --ChadFromCky 17:50, 8 August 2006 (EDT)
Can I ask is there any way to keep Captain Renault and Glenroy alive at the start or are they supposed to die? --ChadFromCky 14:32, 11 August 2006 (EDT)
According to the official game guide: "You can't materially influence the key events in the dungeon. In the company of the emperor, you are mostly a spectator." So it sounds like they are just doomed to die. But I've never really tried to save them, so I'm not 100% sure. (And the game guide isn't 100% accurate) --Nephele 13:48, 11 August 2006 (EDT)
I've tried countless times to save the emperor, Captain Renault, and Glenroy. Captain Renault dies in one hit, so it's impossible to save her. If you manage to do so, I'm sure another wave of bad guys will back the first wave up. If you stick around Glenroy after he tells you to protect the emperor, you will just encounter countless waves of bad guys until you do what your told. You can't kill the bad guy who kills the emperor in the end because your controls are frozen during the kill. Finally, if you break out the cheat codes and resurrect the Emperor, everyone will be standing around grieving the loss of the emperor while he's fat, dumb, and happy. --Aristeo 10:29, 12 August 2006 (EDT)

Construction Set - Skill CommentsEdit

Saw your question to TheRealLurlock and realised I didn't know where they were, so I had a go at finding them, and did find them:

  1. Go to Character - Filtered Dialogue
  2. Select any NPC that says the skill comments - any guard will do
  3. Click the "Conversation" button at the top of the window
  4. Select topic text "HELLO"
  5. The skill comments should be about 1/3 of the way down the comments list

--Actreal 18:14, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

Thanks! I'd been looking under Topics. But of course, it makes much more sense to look under Conversation. --Nephele 18:22, 11 August 2006 (EDT)
Yeah, that's pretty much what I did. I was a little surprised that while all the skills have one, most of the attributes do not. In fact, only Strength and Intelligence do. Granted, I guess you couldn't necessarily tell how Agile someone is by looking at them (like you can with Strength), but then, you can't generally guess somebody's Intelligence on sight either. For that matter, when have you ever looked at somebody's hands and assumed just by looking that they were a healer? Not exactly realism here... --TheRealLurlock 18:30, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

Congratulations!Edit

Congrats on being elevated to the lofty heights of administrator! --Actreal 23:42, 13 August 2006 (EDT)

Morrowind BooksEdit

If you're looking for a good way to find all of the Morrowind books that may need to be removed or moved in to Tamriel:Books, I just found a way. Go to Morrowind:Books, and just go back in the history to the last edit before mine. Right there on one page should be a list of links to every book which is duplicated. As for which one to keep, I know I'm a bit biased since the ones on the Tamriel:Books namespace were mostly done by me, but you might want to base your decision on which one is better formatted, rather than just which one existed first. I noticed a number of them had minimal formatting, (not even spaces between paragraphs in some cases), and were thus harder to read. Not that mine are going to be better in every case, but just look at both before just choosing the earliest version. As I said before, I don't think preserving the history is much of an issue in this case, since there isn't likely to be much if any on these pages. They're just copied right from the game for the most part. --TheRealLurlock 18:12, 17 August 2006 (EDT)

Oh, I've also just noticed that many of them are just unused redirects to the Tamriel:Books. In this case, I think it's pretty clear that there's no need to keep them. --TheRealLurlock 18:14, 17 August 2006 (EDT)

Just to let you know, I do plan to get to this, but it's not my top priority :) So it might be a few days... unless there is some reason why you need it done sooner than that. --Nephele 17:46, 18 August 2006 (EDT)
No rush. Just you asked earlier if I could go and place Delete tags on all of them, and I just figured that would be redundant busy-work if all of them are already linked in one place. (Though it would dramatically boost my edit-count... But I'm trying to keep more of my edits as actually productive ones for the most part, one reason I haven't been doing as much for the last week. Don't worry, there's still plenty of red links on the People page for later...) --TheRealLurlock 23:50, 18 August 2006 (EDT)
Actually, it would only boost your edit count until I got around to deleting them... then your edit count would drop back down again. I know there was one day when we kept swapping places on the active users list as I marked pages for deletion, then Aristeo deleted them. So much for any motivation to add those delete tags :) --Nephele 00:17, 19 August 2006 (EDT)
Well, it only took me an hour to get through 'A' and 'B'! I'm thinking it might take a while to finish this up. Just to make it easier for myself when I do tackle the next chunk, here's a quick link to the right history page. --Nephele 14:42, 6 September 2006 (EDT)

/Description CenteringEdit

Nephele, I wanted to ask before just going ahead with it, but can I put <center> tags around Quest Descriptions so the they will center on the new template? In other words for a lot of the pages I've been updating to the new template the Description for the Quest Header is left aligned and I think it looks bad. Like for Information Gathering, the Description aligns left. If I center the Description will it show up on the Quest Page Header as centered and is this acceptable? --AlbinoMudcrab 21:22, 24 August 2006 (EDT)

I changed the Quest Header template to automatically center the description, which hopefully works well on all the quest pages. That seemed like a better option than adding center tags to the /Description page, because that would affect all templates that use the /Description page (i.e., Quest Link). Let me know whether or not this works. --Nephele 23:24, 24 August 2006 (EDT)

After Nephele changed what she did, I loaded the Information Gathering page into my HTML validator, and I recieved no errors nor warnings. Iff the problem is still occuring, let me know what browser you're using and I'll see if I can recreate the error on my side. --Aristeo 23:32, 24 August 2006 (EDT) It looks like the center tags weren't there to begin with. Problem solved! *quietly sneaks away* --Aristeo 23:37, 24 August 2006 (EDT)

Yes, Yes, much better, thank you for that. I didn't even mean to ask about using center, I wanted to ask you if something could be done to the Quest Header but had spent too long trying to figure the best way to get the description to center. Guess I burned myself out, but you got it. Anyways, it looks perfect now so I'm very content, thanks again. And sorry, about taking a few days to get back with you, been having scummie internet problems. --AlbinoMudcrab 18:55, 26 August 2006 (EDT)

Mediation RequestedEdit

Hey Nephele. There is currently an argument brewing on my talk page about the degree of profanity that should be excluded from UESP. Also, one of the other editors got mad at me because I removed profanity from his user page. It's currently a two-player match, and I'm requesting your support as a mediator to prevent things from getting too hot. --Aristeo 14:34, 31 August 2006 (EDT)

Marksmanship GuideEdit

Although it doesn't seem like it, but there is a difference between the marksman skill and marksmanship. With my guide almost everything was compiled into one very easy to use format, while using the readily available pages someone would have to go from page to page to find what they wanted. Rather than giving numerous pages with information that a user may not want/need I just gave them the essentialls for effective Marksmanship (being a marksman, rather than studying it). (Colas 12:59, 1 September 2006 (EDT))

I do realize that you've added information that wasn't already on the Marksman page, but I don't see why that information can't be incorporated into the Marksman page, instead of creating a new page. For comparison, the Alchemy page covers most aspects of alchemy: the skill perks, how to practice alchemy, possible potions. There is some information that isn't on the alchemy page, such Alchemy Effects and Ingredients, but all of that is linked to from the Alchemy page. In this case, any one who wants to learn about marksmanship is going to go to the Marksman page first, if for no other reason than that's the easiest page to find (i.e., it's linked to from the Skills page). Why not just put all the information there instead of drawing an arbitrary distinction between the skill and the practice of it? It is very easy to create links to other pages, such as for arrows and bows. If you feel that perhaps the information on bows needs to be assembled to be found more easily, then that is something worth discussing... but even then it's probably more of a question for the items section to create an easy-to-link-to page than for all of the information to be duplicated in another section. It is much harder to maintain information (keep it accurate, up-to-date, complete, etc) if it's duplicated in multiple places. Anyway, that's my feeling about the topic. It may be that this is a more general question of site organization that needs to be tackled by the community as a whole. --Nephele 13:25, 1 September 2006 (EDT)

"Finger" vs. "Fingers"Edit

Sorry about this -- I see that you changed this back from "Fingers" to "Finger" on the Chorrol Recommendaton/Mages quest. I had made the edit because I was having trouble finding the quest page. When you look in your Quests diary (Active Quests, Current Quests, etc) this particular quest shows up as "Fingers of the Mountain, Part XX" on XBox (I don't know about the PC version) so I thought the change was appropriate. --Hoggwild5 15:40, 14 September 2006 (EDT)

I changed it because the spell is "Finger of the Mountain", and that paragraph really only talks about the spell; it still seems to me like the singular is the correct name for that paragraph. But it sounds like perhaps there should be a page called "Fingers of the Mountain" that redirects to the Chorrol Recommendation quest. I'll check into the what the various names are for this quest when I get home (I have both Xbox and PC, so I can check both), and set up any appropriate redirects. Thanks for pointing out that the quest has multiple names, and sorry for not realizing the intent of your original edit. --Nephele 15:52, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
Never one to take the easy way out, I opted to rename the page and change most of the links to it, instead of just changing the title of one paragraph :) So, you should now be able to find "Fingers of the Mountain" and "Fingers of the Mountain, Part II" much more easily. --Nephele 22:47, 14 September 2006 (EDT)

Overview of Gods and WorshipEdit

You commented that this book is not in Oblivion. That is incorrect. It IS in Oblivion, but the title is just "Gods and Worship". See Oblivion:Gods and Worship. At a quick glance, it seems to be identical to the Daggerfall and Morrowind versions, though I didn't inspect them closely. It may make sense to eliminate one or two of these pages if there is no significant difference between them. --TheRealLurlock 09:19, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

Deleting irrelevant race pagesEdit

Just thought I'd leave a note here so say I thoroughly approve of getting rid of pages like Oblivion:Aedra, etc. rather than cluttering up new talk pages. They'd been annoying me for some time, but I hadn't got around to making them completely unnecessary by removing links and such. --Actreal 04:33, 21 September 2006 (EDT)

Tamriel:The Thirty-Six Lessons of VivecEdit

Why have you removed the deletion request from this page? It is orphan, and hence won't be used any more. Any new links should point to Tamriel:The 36 Lessons of Vivec, and leaving the redirect will just tempt people to use it. --DrPhoton 11:32, 27 September 2006 (EDT)

I agree that any new links should use "36 Lessons". But it is easily possible that someone will look for this book under the name "Thirty-Six Lessons", especially since in the books' text, that is how the title is spelled. Therefore, it seems most appropriate to leave a redirect and make it easier for readers to find the book (for example, if they do a search on the name). Also, the page does have a substantial history. --Nephele 11:40, 27 September 2006 (EDT)
When a redirect is deleted, there is a risk that external links to the site can become broken. In general, redirects should only be deleted when they are harmful to the site, or when they were created very recently. I highly recommend that you look at Wikipedia's redirect deletion guidelines. --Aristeo 12:43, 27 September 2006 (EDT)
Fair enough. Thanks. --DrPhoton 13:58, 27 September 2006 (EDT)

Wanted PagesEdit

As you contacted me earlier and told me about changing the page name instead of creating a new page, e.g.Tamriel:House Telvanni as you said i would like to know how to know if there is a page like it already created. Is it just trial and error in trying to find a page that has the same meaning or is there an easy way to search it? --Konnajb 07:31, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Grey CowlEdit

No stress. It's been on my to do list for a while and I haven't done it. It's more a list of things I notice need doing so I don't forget them, so I completely do not mind if other people do them for me! :D

I'll have a look at your version - there's a lot of strategies/bugs to do with the Cowl that can be all referenced to one page, so that will be something I'll try and look at.

--Actreal 23:38, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Style Guide questionEdit

This Style Guide you told me about, I'm having a little problem with it. You see there are two lines of some code. heres the way they are shown in the guide:

{{Template:Oblivion Quests Leyawiin Trail}}<br>
[[Category:Oblivion-Quests|{{PAGENAME}}]]

and heres the way they are used in all the mages guild pages:

[[Category:Oblivion-Quests|{{PAGENAME}}]]<br>
{{Template:Oblivion Quests Leyawiin Trail}}

i'm not sure what they mean, but this trail (in the guide) comes first. in the mages guild pages however it comes after Category:Oblivion-Quests how am i supposed to use them properly? --Brightone 12:46, 9 October 2006 (EDT)

Category entries can go pretty much anywhere on the page, since they don't show. You could put it in the middle of a sentence and it would work the same way. This of course would be confusing to editors, so it's generally put at the beginning or end simply as a convenience. However, it doesn't really matter. --TheRealLurlock 12:55, 9 October 2006 (EDT)
Actually, in this case the Category line is redundant... the only line that you need is the Trail template. Those redundant categories need to be cleaned up at some point. --Nephele 12:58, 9 October 2006 (EDT)

i'll take a note. thankee lads! --Brightone 15:12, 9 October 2006 (EDT)

Gone to DollywoodEdit

Hey! I'm not going to be active for until Sunday, as I'm going to be away on vacation. I might be able to get internet access in a hotel or something, but I'll be under my sockpuppet LittleAristeo. I will not be using my administrative account unless there is an emergency. --Aristeo 12:09, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

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