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User talk:Legoless/Arc 2013b

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This is an archive of previous comments on my talk page. Please do not post a message here - use this link to go to the active page instead.

Time Limit on WIPsEdit

Hi, Legoless; hope I've caught you while you're still here. I just wanted to draw your attention to the line in the sand Krusty has drawn with WIPs. Anyways, you might want to focus on finishing up Lore:Artifacts. The Kolbjorn Barrow page looks great, by the way. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 19:12, 2 July 2013 (GMT)

I've wrapped up the work, but the Lore:Artifacts page was basically blanked in the process. Still quite a few artifacts needing their own page. The layout is in place though, so I've removed the WIP tag. —Legoless (talk) 19:26, 2 July 2013 (GMT)
What's wrong with your overview? Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 19:35, 2 July 2013 (GMT)
...Completely forgot about that. Thanks. —Legoless (talk) 19:53, 2 July 2013 (GMT)

How to Add a "Found in" Section to Artifacts?Edit

I see that you've done quite a bit of work on the Lore:Artifacts page and it's subpages. However, one thing that I would like to do to improve it is to add a section for each artifact that says "Found in" and has a link to the articles of the artifact in each game that it is found in. This is already done in Lore:Bestiary (e.g. Lore:Bestiary A) and I think it would greatly improve the Artifact articles.

However, I'm not sure how to do this. As far as I can tell, each Artifact letter page pulls information from an individual page for each artifact. I figured I'd ask you what the right way to do this would be before I asked about it. I'm willing to do the legwork and actually implement the changes; I just need to understand how you have it set up before I went ahead and made the changes. -Thunderforge (talk) 21:56, 12 July 2013 (GMT)

The individual artifact articles have the information about which games the items are found in if you click through from the list page. Adding that info to the list pages as well may be overburdening, since the entirety of the articles' main text is being transcluded already. If you want, I think adding a bulletpoint underneath the entries with the links would be suitable, but occasionally an artifact's appearance in a game isn't straightforward (i.e. Lore:Daedric Crescents don't really appear in Battlespire). It might just be better to leave the list pages as-is. Or, perhaps they could be converted to something similar to the bestiary, displaying the links, an image, and a small summary of the artifact. —Legoless (talk) 22:03, 12 July 2013 (GMT)
I don't feel that it would be overburdening and would in fact be very helpful, as one can quickly scroll through the list and see which artifacts are in which games (and consequently figure out which ones are the most prevalent in Elder Scrolls lore). It looks like the Bestiary letter pages use Template:Flora Entry, which seems to be used for both flora and fauna. I suppose that we could use that template for artifacts with the current transclusion used as the description, but if we do that, we probably ought to think about widening the scope of the template. -Thunderforge (talk) 22:33, 12 July 2013 (GMT)
I created a mockup of Lore:Artifacts A using Template: Flora Entry. You can check it out here. -Thunderforge (talk) 23:05, 12 July 2013 (GMT)
Yeah, exactly what I had in mind, looks good. Might want to remove the double linebreaks in between each section, but other than that it looks good to go if you want to implement it. —Legoless (talk) 23:08, 12 July 2013 (GMT)
All done! Every artifact with a Lore namespace article has this template applied to it, and I think the article looks great! All that remains is to create namespace articles for the few stragglers on Lore:Artifacts C, Lore:Artifacts M, Lore:Artifacts R, and Lore:Artifacts S and it will be fully complete. -Thunderforge (talk) 01:28, 13 July 2013 (GMT)
Cool. There are likely quite a few more artifact pages to be created as well, so it's nice to see the list coming together. —Legoless (talk) 01:53, 13 July 2013 (GMT)

An eye on 62.232.113.211Edit

It seems to me that the anonymous user 62.232.113.211 systematically fills in dubious information. Some of it was reverted at once, but the contributions on the Jarl was not. I was a bit unsure if it was correct or me to remove all, but most of it seemed a bit unlikely or irrelevant for the page, so I did. Hope I did nothing wrong there? —MortenOSlash (talk) 19:55, 14 July 2013 (GMT)

I believe the IP is getting his info from the CK. I've added a few {{vn}} tags, but otherwise his additions don't seem very dubious. —Legoless (talk) 20:03, 14 July 2013 (GMT)
OK. Thank you for help and guidance. I guess I will go for the vn tags next time. I was fooled a bit by the user being anonymous, I think, and the fact that I could not find any indications through Google on where the source could have been. —MortenOSlash (talk) 20:18, 14 July 2013 (GMT)

NelothEdit

I'm just making sure you are aware of Bralsa's dialogue error where she does refer to Neloth as female. "Skooma! Lovely skooma. But I'd sooner give it up than go work for her. That dunmer is crazy!" This is the only occurrence of Neloth being referred to as female, and clearly a mistake given all the dialogue using male pronouns when referring to him. So as I said, just making sure you know of this line, which is why I didn't warn the anonymous user myself. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 21:06, 15 July 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, I know of it, but the IP was still adding misleading info to the pages. —Legoless (talk) 21:11, 15 July 2013 (GMT)

Bolding unneededEdit

I know it is consistent. It is also completely and utterly wrong. Also, the names come directly from the games, so at some point we need to remove the silly OOG tag from every single one of them. Jeancey (talk) 17:58, 17 July 2013 (GMT)

The bolding was originally put in place because each gladiator team didn't warrant a separate page, so any reference to it should redirect to the relevant city pages. If we're going to remove it, best to do them all at once. The OOG tags should stay, as the info is from unused Arena files, just as canon as Lord Cluttermonkey. Worth noting on the page, but not a legitimate source. —Legoless (talk) 18:03, 17 July 2013 (GMT)
Fair enough point on the OOG. Should I remove them all by hand, or do you think it might be better to have a bot do it? Jeancey (talk) 18:06, 17 July 2013 (GMT)
Probably not worth the effort trying to get a bot to do it, but there are quite a lot. Your call. —Legoless (talk) 18:08, 17 July 2013 (GMT)
Meh, I've been called a bot before. Is there a list anywhere? Jeancey (talk) 18:14, 17 July 2013 (GMT)
I imagine it's all of these. —Legoless (talk) 18:18, 17 July 2013 (GMT)
Alright, I'm fairly certain I got them all. Jeancey (talk) 20:04, 17 July 2013 (GMT)

Sun Birds of AlinorEdit

I noticed you deleted the Sun Birds from the Creatures section on the Summerset Isles page. If they're not creatures, then what are they? AldmeriDominion (talk) 16:35, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

They're a faction of Altmer or Aldmer who journeyed to Aetherius. —Legoless (talk) 16:37, 14 August 2013 (GMT)
To be fair, according to Michael Kirkbride: "They're not ships, they're actual birds. Well, okay, really big birds made out of the sun." Take that how you will - I don't interpret that as a faction of mer. The pocket guide's mention of them is much more vague. The problem is if MK posts are accepted lore on the wiki - I have seen cases where some of his forum posts [1] are accepted - but other times when even some of his obscure texts are not. I read a post from rpeh who said MK forums post were not allowed per community consensus that happened a while back. The whole thing is a bit inconsistent and sends mixed messages of what is okay. --Jimeee (talk) 10:34, 16 August 2013 (GMT)
When his random forum posts conflict with established lore, it's probably better to just mention them as a note or ignore them altogether. We could start a discussion about this case somewhere. Regardless of that, a creature list shouldn't really exist on the Summerset Isles page; it should be changed to prose and the content integrated into the bestiary. —Legoless (talk) 13:35, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

Ash Spawn and EbonyEdit

Hey Lego! Just a quick note about why I deleted the Ash Spawn entry from the quest page – the CK said "25% chance you get nothing at all, and you can also get other types of ores". I simply deemed the chance of getting Ebony from Ash Spawn unimportant on an article with crystal-clear directions, although the info could be added in the same sentence as the merchants? ☺ --Krusty (talk) 20:47, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

I got all the ebony for that quest without leaving Solstheim just from random Ash Spawn attacks, so it seems noteworthy to me. Don't mind how it's integrated so much. —Legoless (talk) 20:51, 15 August 2013 (GMT)
Tweaked. --Krusty (talk) 20:57, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

CookieEdit

You have been given a cookie!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

Well done on adding all of Louis Beauchamp's dialogue all in ONE edit! Keep up the wiki work! Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 11:46, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
Thanks, hoping to do the dialogue for some others as well. —Legoless (talk) 16:26, 2 September 2013 (GMT)

Sandbox 15Edit

In your sandbox, are the definitions from the game, or just put into your own words? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 18:14, 2 September 2013 (GMT)

They were seemingly "unique" dialogue options for Artisa Arelas, but they appear to be generic. Just dumped them there for now, after all the effort of copying them from the CS. —Legoless (talk) 18:16, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
By CS, do you mean either: Construction Set or CSList? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 18:21, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
Construction Set, but basically the same difference in terms of data. —Legoless (talk) 18:25, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
In the CSList, it has full (if not, most) NPC data. Why does it not have dialogue data? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 19:26, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
Sorry, no idea, I'm not involved with it. —Legoless (talk) 20:00, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
I know that, but Nephele created it. That means that if she's inactive, nothing new could go on CSList for a while now. Could Daveh add to it, or is that not his line of work (day-to-day business) on the wiki? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 20:05, 2 September 2013 (GMT)

() I believe it's still being managed without Nephele. —Legoless (talk) 20:36, 2 September 2013 (GMT)

By whom? Anyone I should speak to if I want to know more? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 20:43, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
The Morrowind dialogue is in the cslist, it's just very hard to find and not particularly useful. To my knowledge, all the raw game data is in the cslist. --AN|L (talk) 20:46, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
(edit conflict) The last updates were done by Alfwyn, who has not been active in a while. He, RH, and Jak have permissions to make changes (along with Daveh, of course). As for the dialogue data you think it's missing, can you be more specific? Dialogue is listed in CSList for Morrowind, so is there something specific that's missing? — ABCface 20:48, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
Yes, just for finding out unique dialogue for NPCs. And Anil, when you say dialogue is very hard to find, how is it so hard to find? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 20:53, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
It's so hard to find that it isn't useful, due to the dialogue not being linked to the NPC it comes from. For example, if you look at Artisa Arelas's page, it doesn't link to any of her dialogue. It is there, but you basically have to know what line you are looking for in order to find it or wade through the INFO pages. --AN|L (talk) 20:58, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
This is largely the result of how it's done in the game's data. A lot of the dialogue is only indirectly linked to the PC who speaks it. This is done because it allows dialogue to be spoken by more than one person, including transferring dialogue from one person to another on occasion, such as when a shopkeeper dies and their replacement takes over. Even the Construction Kit offers only the most roundabout way of finding who spoke what dialogue, so we can't fault the CSList for lacking such a feature as well. Robin Hood  (talk) 21:04, 2 September 2013 (GMT)

() Anil, what do you mean by the dialogue is there, but no links to it? On Skyrim NPC pages in CSList, the dialogue is clearly visible and is in wikitable form. Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 21:06, 2 September 2013 (GMT)

It means just that; the dialogue can be found in CSList but it is not listed or found on an NPC entry. Take the NPC entry of Raig for example. There is no link to the unique latest rumor he has. Also, unlike in the Skyrim namespace, there is no table containing any and all unique dialogue that he would have. Yet his unique line of dialogue does exist in the CSList. If you do an Advanced Search and check "Dialogue Text" and then enter the dialogue entry you are looking for (in this case I searched for the term "Dro'Zaymar"), two lines of dialogue appeared. Looking at each one, the first entry contains the unique latest rumor that Raig has (seen here). As can be seen though, one of the major flaws of this strategy is that you actually have to know basically what the line of dialogue is just to see it. So the dialogue can be found, but there really is not an efficient way to find what lines of unique dialogue a character has. Forfeit (talk) 21:36, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
Long story short, you can't trust CSList to give you all a character's dialogue. It's very annoying. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 22:36, 2 September 2013 (GMT)
You mean that it is like knowing the dialogue ID? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 15:49, 3 September 2013 (GMT)
Why does the dialogue have those long number encryptions anyway? Guard of DragonsSpeak To Me 15:50, 3 September 2013 (GMT)
You might want to ask these questions elsewhere, I really can't help you. —Legoless (talk) 16:04, 3 September 2013 (GMT)

Removed questionEdit

Why did you remove my question on the dovahcore helmet? It was a perfectly legit question. 74.240.202.174 03:42, 7 November 2013‎ (GMT)

He didn't, he just moved it to the bottom of the page.--Skyrimplayer (talk) 04:10, 7 November 2013 (GMT)
I looked and it wasn't there. I even compared the edits and it was a simple delete. If it's down there now someone else has re-added it. 74.240.202.174 04:41, 7 November 2013‎ (GMT)
Just take a look at the page history. As you can see, from both the history and his edit summary, he merely put your question in chronological order.--Skyrimplayer (talk) 04:49, 7 November 2013 (GMT)
You may be seeing an older version of the page due to the fact that you're not using an account. That's a limitation of our current setup. The easiest thing to do would be to create an account, but I'll go purge the page as well, which I believe will refresh it for you, though I'm not 100% certain of that. Robin Hood  (talk) 06:13, 7 November 2013 (GMT)
If you're still not seeing it, you can perform a hard refresh of the page (Ctrl + F5 a few times). —Legoless (talk) 19:25, 7 November 2013 (GMT)

Note on Jirolin Doran's HouseEdit

Hey Legoless. I was beginning some OBHRP related work on Jirolin Doran's House and noticed that you added a note about the framed parchment in the bedroom of the house that shows Jirolin's family tree and is related to the unfinished quest. The note seems adequate enough for the house page in my opinion, as it mentions that the parchment is located there, provides an explanation of what it is related to, and gives readers a link to where they can find information about the unfinished quest. However, you added the {{huh}} template by the first sentence about the parchment being framed on the wall in the bedroom. My question to you then is why did you place this template there? Were you looking for confirmation that this is where the parchment was located in the house, or did you want further information about the family tree to be added to the page? Thanks in advance! Forfeit (talk) 06:18, 28 November 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, it was just looking for confirmation on the location, maybe a better description. I didn't check it out in-game. —Legoless (talk) 18:51, 28 November 2013 (GMT)
Alright, that's no problem then since the specific location will be provided once I write the walkthrough for the house. Thanks for clearing that up. Forfeit (talk) 22:59, 28 November 2013 (GMT)

Frossel spellingEdit

Hi Legoless, on the Frossel page I'd pit the worshipping/worshiping word with single p's as it was underlining them as incorrect words, presumed it was an American thing. Are there any other common one's that are like that i.e coming up wrong when they aren't and do we have a page of them? Cheers Biffa (talk) 16:54, 13 December 2013 (GMT)

This page contains the wiki's spelling standards. —Legoless (talk) 16:56, 13 December 2013 (GMT)

OldblivionEdit

Thanks for setting up that page. The new page looks really good! --Ratwar (talk) 18:08, 24 December 2013 (GMT)

No problem, just pulled some stuff off the Wayback Machine. Nice to see you around the wiki again! —Legoless (talk) 18:15, 24 December 2013 (GMT)
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