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UESPWiki talk:Oblivion Map Design/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past UESPWiki talk:Oblivion Map Design discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Missing Oblivion Gate On The Map

There's one that occasionally spawns on the City Isle, past the Arcane University. --Merco 08:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

None of the Oblivion Gates are missing from the map. The one on City Isle is clearly visible at this location. If you're not seeing a gate or any other feature where you expect to see one, first make sure to click "Reset Search". If you have an active search, then the map will only show the icons associated with that search. Also note that links such as this one that do a search for Oblivion Gates only show 50 icons at a time, whereas there are 99 gates in all. That should be pretty apparent when you first pull up the map, given that half of the map contains no icons. Or from the text in the search box that says "Results 1-50 of 99 matching locations for gate to oblivion." To see the other 49, you need to click on the "Next" link at the bottom of the list. Please try using a little common sense instead of immediately assuming that there's a bug with the map. --NepheleTalk 11:51, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Note to editor

If you search for the Ayleid ruin "Hame" and then manouver to the right a bit there appears to be some sort of mark or deforimty very similar to a Swastika on your map. Either this is a bug, or someone made a very bad joke.

On a map of this size I'm surprised there aren't more things like this. Of course it's not intentional - it's just the sort of area markings that the construction set adds in. Eventually we're going to try to remove those as we did for the Shivering Isles but it's a long process. --Rpeh•T•C•E• 02:41, 11 December 2007 (EST)

Map Improvements

I now have the ability to help a lot more with improving both the Oblivion and SI maps, so I wanted to get some feedback on what can be done and also recruit some help. There are already a fair number of ideas at #Suggestions, but I wanted to prioritize them and flesh a few of them out. There are a few natural groups that ideas fall into:

  • Updating map tiles, in other words changing the primary map image (separate from the map markers and labels that get superimposed on the image). I'm counting on others (hopefully Timenn and Rpeh; anyone else is welcome to volunteer!) to create the tiles. I'll help mainly just by transferring the tiles to the server. In roughly decreasing order of priority:
    • Merge city interior maps (i.e., the more detailed maps) with main world maps. Done for SI
    • Remove artifacts from maps. Done for SI
    • Blue water
    • Create a second set of Oblivion map tiles that includes all updates from official mods? Just an idea, but I think it would be nice
  • Adding/deleting/tweaking locations on map. In other words, the markers and names that appear on the map.
    • As far as I know, the Oblivion map is in pretty good shape. Also, the site's other cartographers have the ability to make these types of changes already.
    • I'm the only person at the moment (other than Daveh) with the ability to alter the SI map locations. If anyone knows of missing locations, incorrect locations, or ones that need to be deleted, let me know and I'll work on them. When I get a chance, I'll also try scanning the map for issues.
    • I also need to give the other cartographers access to do this.
  • Improving map markers. I'd appreciate both feedback on what markers to add/modify and help with creating the markers. I can then get them added to the server and get them displayed for appropriate places.
    • One list of potential markers already exists at #New Marker Types: they just need to be created ;)
    • We probably also need a better miscellaneous marker (right now the "default" is a door icon, but that's not the best default for items like Fin Gleam).
    • In addition, there are possibly SI-specific markers (for example, Obelisks of Order and Crystal Chests)
    • Another question is whether to have a second set of markers in a different colour (but same image otherwise) that are specifically used for mod-related places
  • Other changes will require modifying the code, and that's not something that I'm too keen on tackling right now. For example, a printable option or an option to add a cell grid. I'd prefer to stick to data changes rather than software changes ;)

--NepheleTalk 01:07, 12 January 2008 (EST)

OK, I did some revamps of the SI map markers today, as detailed at Data Updates. Although many of the tweaks were straightforward, a few probably need a bit more explanation:
  • I disabled all doors that are in the "Mania Garden" and "Dementia Garden" worlds. These two areas are essentially "invisible" at the top level map. They don't have low-resolution approximations that appear on the general map, and where they supposedly exist (based on x/y coordinates), there is regular map terrain, that can be accesssed if you explore outside New Sheoth. The upshot of which is that all of those doors appeared completely out-of-place on the SI map. So I eliminated the confusion by disabling them (the info is still in the database, but it will never appear on the map, even if you search on the place names).
  • I experimented with map markers for houses that have multiple doors. Previously, the New Sheoth maps were just chaos, especially at zoom=15 but also at zoom=16, because of all the overlapping labels. Now by default only one map marker appears for each building. At zoom=15, only the stores appear. At zoom=16, the house entrances are also shown. Although only one door marker appears on this map, all of the other markers are still in the database. So, for example, if you do a search on Rendil Drarara, both of her house's doors appear. The way this was done was by setting DisplayLevel=17 for the upstairs door (i.e., saying that by default the door only shows up when you increase the map zoom level to 17). Since the maximum allowed zoom is 16, it's impossible to zoom in far enough. But when you do an explicit search, all relevant map markers appear, regardless of the zoom level.
I've used this DisplayLevel=17 zoom trick throughout the SI map; I'd be interested in hearing feedback on whether it seems to work reasonably well. If it seems popular, then I'll probably also apply it eventually to the Oblivion map (for example, all of the Skingrad houses that have upstairs balconies). If it doesn't seem to work, there are probably other ways to tackle excessive labels, although the other options probably require software tweaks. --NepheleTalk 00:28, 14 January 2008 (EST)
  • If it will be of any assistance, I can have a look at some of the code not data changes - I spend a fair portion of my working life writing javascript and have played with the Google maps API before (although not in-depth, I admit). I'm relatively new here so I'm a little unsure of the protocol - apologies if I'm stepping on anyone's toes.Basiclife

Morrowind Map

I've posted some examples and questions about the above on here. Please can people take a look and let me have their thoughts. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 07:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Map does not work properly for me

Hi there!

I am running Firefox 2 on Windows Vista, and have a problem with the map. It opens and then displays just the text on the map, ie Skingrad Imperial City etc, but there is no terrain and instead i get this message all over the place: No Data Avaible.

Could this be a firewall related problem? If so why does the normal google maps work as well as some other API implementing pages?

I would be gratefulf or any advice.

Thanks Jerome

What link specifically are using to access the maps? There are a couple of different possible URLs that can lead to the Oblivion maps, so knowing which one you're using would be helpful. --NepheleTalk 14:09, 3 March 2008 (EST)
I am using this link http://www.uesp.net/oblivion/map/obmap.shtml thanks for teh quick answer!
Hmmm... I'd thought that there were some other possible links you could try but two of them are actually just redirects, so you'd end up at the exact same link (obmap.uesp.net and maps.uesp.net if you're curious). And a couple of other options I'd thought you could try to help pinpoint what's going on won't work either.
Which leaves me basically with the standard types of suggestions. You may want to try emptying out your cache. And then try using the map during the week (rather than the weekend) to make sure there isn't a problem with the site just being overloaded when you're trying to access the map images. In theory, yes, it could be a firewall problem, although it isn't one that's been previously reported. I'm not coming up with any other ideas at the moment. --NepheleTalk 23:06, 3 March 2008 (EST)
Ok cache did not work, basically the situtaion is as follows, im at Uni in a Student residence hall, no one else here can open the map either(checked with a couple of friends), so therefore i assume that somhow the connection that gets the image data and icons from your server is blocked, does it use any special ports? if so is there a way to hange the ports or circumvent the blockage?
I just tried from work and get exactly the same problem. The main map page loads almost immediately and then sits there doing nothing - occasionally a "No Data Available" tile appears and eventually (after about 2 mins) the page stops loading. During this time, FireFox is trying to load from content1.uesp.net according to the status bar. A quick play hasn't found an obvious solution. I know it all works from home so I'd guess something is being firewalled. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 08:09, 4 March 2008 (EST)
If you find out how to work around this or what is being blocked, please let us know because the map would be very helpful for me.cheers for the help so far
LIkewise, the map's not working for me either! Is there anything more... basic to view that might work? Major Tom 13:14, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Try the links here. --Timenn-<talk> 13:19, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Image data is retrieved from our image server http://www.uesp.net:81/ which uses the non-standard port of 81, which is possibly why you aren't seeing anything. I'll think about possible solutions to get around this and see if any work when I get some time to play with it. -- Daveh 11:52, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
FWIW, I believe some FF versions have a bug in javascript which causes it to ignore proxy config rules when using AJAX - it's possible the requests to update the map tiles are not being routed through the uni servers properly. Of course, Daveh's solution is more probable, but it's a thought - does it work in other browsers? Basiclife 15:50, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Map does not work for me, either, and I have tried it many times over several months. I have tried it both with the latest beta of Firefox, and with a current version of IE. I get the same thing, titles, but no map in the background. I, too, am trying to access it from work (during the week), and am behind a firewall. (I don't have the password for the firewall, so opening a non-standard port is not an option here. Could anything be done to make the data available on a more commonly used port?) — Unsigned comment by 69.15.164.226 (talk)

I'm not behind any sort of firewall that blocks port 81, this map is quite simply broken. I'm using Firefox 3 on Ubuntu linux as well as WinXP and it doesn't work on either. I know this map is a "work in progress" but don't fool yourselves into believing that the problem is due to port blocking at the clients end because it's not. It's is just broken at your end. — Unsigned comment by 124.180.101.58 (talk) on 24 November 2008

No it isn't. The map works for the vast majority of people in the vast majority of cases. There are known issues with some browsers but if you can't view it at all then the problem lies with you and your setup. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 07:30, 24 November 2008 (EST)
Given the source of this latest comment, I think it's safe to give it zero credibility. --NepheleTalk 11:08, 24 November 2008 (EST)
And it had been so quiet lately... Evidently my DUMG auto-recognition system had switched itself off... –Rpeh•T•C•E• 12:38, 24 November 2008 (EST)
The squid proxy server blocks port 81 via the proxy by default. When I reconfigured squid to allow port 81 the map worked. Squid is fairly common, and most end users won't have access to change its settings, perhaps if you can put it on another port. Anything above 1024 would be accepted by squid by default. 202.154.105.237 02:01, 27 March 2009 (EDT)

The map doesn't work if you have Norton Internet Security for some reason. Disable the firewall and then re-enable it (may work). Or just configure it to allow port 81. Further, PeerBlock or Peerguardian may also disrupt the map.

Thanks for this! The server has a blocked ip ("iWeb Dedicated|Anti-p2p", 67.205.76.81:81), so PeerBlock was preventing me from loading the map.

Map features or symbols I don't find a definition for.

There are four specific items that I have been unsuccessful in finding a definition of.

The first is at the site "Temple of the Ancestor Moths". There are a number of red rectangular outlines at this location. I would like to know what they represent.

The next is a series of yellow rectangular outlines that show up in "many" places throughout the map. They don't seem to be at or over any single type of feature that I can see.

Third is a number of very tiny pink colored marks that appear to be roughly a "v or Y" shape. They are very tiny even at maximum magnification. Most of them are single marks but I have seen places where there are 5 or 6 in a straight row close together.

The last is a very distinctive symbol that is located just to the NE of Bruma. It is cleaarly a "created" symbol and not an accident of graphic symbology. It has some features similar to an Oblivion Gate but I am not able to identify it.

If any of the folks who put the map together could tell me about the meaning of these items I would be grateful. At the same time hats off to the same people as this is a superbly useful map tool.

oldwest 19:46, 4 March 2008 (EST)

All the maps are exported from the construction set and most of the lines, boxes and spots on the map are things like patrol areas and creature locations. The thing NE of Bruma is the Siege Crawler. If you don't recognise it, I'm not going to spoil the surprise! At some point we hope to go through and remove the boxes and lines but it's a big task. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 02:00, 5 March 2008 (EST)

Amazing Map!!!

Thank you so much for making this! I could find all the Nirnroots I was trying to find for the Seeking your Roots quest. I also can find anything I was trying to find by walking around on the map. I didn't find any glitches or mistakes with it so great job! Thanks again for all your hard work!

moths! moths everywhere!

The Ancestor Moth sanctuary is swarmed with red boxes that represent the trajectories of swarming moths. The red stain is visible "from space" and looks like lava. Could it be removed on the pixel level?Temple-Zero 21:27, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Rpeh has put together some tools to automatically remove most of the construction set artifacts from the map tiles, including artifacts such as these red boxes. At some point hopefully we'll have a chance to upload a complete new set of "clean" images for the Oblivion map. --NepheleTalk 23:47, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Crystal Chests

I'd like to disable the inaccessible Crystal Chests on the map - the list of accessible ones has been updated at Shivering:Crystal Chest. Once that has been checked, it seems silly to include the ones you can only access using console cheats. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 14:50, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Makes sense. --NepheleTalk 11:17, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
Done. I've disabled the chests that aren't accessible. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 03:11, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

dead links

http://www.econym.demon.co.uk/googlemaps/custommap.htm for the map tutorial is dead, and it links to this page:

http://www.econym.googlepages.com/index.htm which is also dead.

I did find an archived version which I changed the link too. Travb 22:43, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

http://econym.googlepages.com/index.htm works, with no www. I changed the tutorial link to this web page. Travb 22:55, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

Idea to enhance Interactive Maps

OK, I was thinking that it might be possible to mimic the "Street View" feature of Google maps (seeing as the Interactive Maps are already based off of Google software) by walking a character down roads, paths, enterances to dungeons & settlements, etc., and meanwhile, about every 15-30 in-game ft., taking a screenshot with view boundries set to maximum (if possible, to create a 360-degree image that might be able to be used to "wrap around", allowing viewers to seamlessly and indefinetly rotate the "camera", like in Street View). I realize that a feature like this would require extremely large amounts of server space (for images), time/effort (set-up, programming, picture-taking, implementation, de-bugging, as well as other tasks associated with the process), and organization (getting each picture to correlate correctly with the map), however, despite these possible obstacles, I think the feature would be immencely valueable as it would allow users to get a representation of the area from a perspective that one could relate to. It would also allow for phenominally more detail directions, allowing for the use of definate lankmarks, rather than something like, "look SE and walk forwards until you see a fallen log on the ground to your right and a cluster of rocks that resembles a turtle", which is basically the directions from the official Oblivion guide for the hidden wilderness stash connected to the note at Fort Coldcorn. As you might have guessed, these directions are very obscure, personally causing me to have to spend over five minutes looking for that one stash. With piture directions, however, one could give much more detailed directions, saving people time and frustration. Additionally, having this as an online feature allows people to check directions or locations without having to start up an application, which can't be looked at at the same time they are editing or contributing in some fashion. The same goes for console gamers, who additionally have the problem of their computers often being out-of-sight, or in a completely different room, from their console. Sorry for the long post and thank you for taking the time to read it, as I definately think you should consider all the possibilities surrounding this purposed addition, as well as how we as a community at UESP could accomplish this goal, even if it requires thinking "outside of the box" or personally requesting permissions from where they might be needed. Once again, thank you for reading, and please respond back with a message as detailed as your schedual allows for and as soon as your schedual allows for. Thank you, and have a great day! -Adoring Fan 00:14, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

While the ability to view individual screenshots is something I've been considering for a while, the idea of a full 360 degree view is way, way over the top. The game map is (very roughly) 16 miles on each size. I'm not even going to work out just how many images that would need because there is no way it's ever going to happen. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 01:06, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

Missing Nirnroot

There is a Nirnroot just SE of the lady stone / NW of the Anvil Lighthouse that has a red dot as if it had been marked to recieve an icon but never did. — Unsigned comment by 24.182.163.56 (talk) on 16 September 2008

All the nirnroot are on the map. If you look at your search results you'll see that you're on page one and that there is another page. Alternatively, zoom in. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 00:44, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Icons Missing?

It seems that all the icons for the map are missing. Several people have noticed this as well. I'm not sure if this has just started happening today or if it might be a server problem. --Vargon 16:15, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks for pointing out the problem. A server change was just implemented this morning, which effectively made all of the map data unavailable. I've been able to semi-fix the problem (for users, all of the maps should again be fully functional, the "semi" is just because the current solution isn't optimal). --NepheleTalk 18:08, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Test Cells

Would it be possible to get maps of the Exterior Test Cells if only for completenesses sake. I understand that the number of conflicting or unconnected cells could make this difficult but it would still be nice.The-manta 17:48, 15 November 2008 (EST)

Cell Grid

It would be absolutely fantastic if there was a way of checking which cell you are viewing. Again, I understand that this might be hard (although I honestly have no idea what it would entail), but it would make location scouting for modding and to allow xbox users to find out which cell is which.The-manta 17:48, 15 November 2008 (EST)

I would also love this feature as well, but a more simpler and easier suggestion would be to just add the cell grid at the end of each label like Apprentice Stone (-41, 52) for example, it would make modding much easier. Mightylink

that would be awesome! it would make modding so much easier!208.255.74.34 04:14, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Missing Location(s)

Hi!

Great map. I use it a lot.

By the way, I can't find Wenyandanwik in it. It's an Ayleid ruin south of The Inn of Ill Omen. — Unsigned comment by 81.37.67.49 (talk) on 27 November 2008

Never heard of it. However, there's a place called Wenyandawik that's already marked ;) –Rpeh•T•C•E• 08:49, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Just wanted to inform you that there is one missing spot that is quite important missing: Pale Pass, the Akaviri fortress in a valley north of Bruma, the serpent cave and the sentinel. It's not that I have problems finding it and need a map, the walkthrough worked just fine, but if you want to make the map 100% correct, you should probably take look at it. Thanks for the awesome map(s) though! — Unsigned comment by SwedishBerzerker (talk • contribs) on 11 February 2009

Yeah we know. Painted World too, and Mankar Cameron's paradise. We've already done the maps (see the bottom of the Suggestions list at the top of this page) - but there's still quite a bit of work to do. Those areas are different because they aren't part of the main world map. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 10:04, 11 February 2009 (EST)
Oh, I meant an icon on the world map ;) The painted world is unnaccessible after completing the quest, as far as I know, so an icon showing that place wouldn't be necessary. Never done the Mankar Cameron's paradise-quest. But an icon for Pale Pass, just like with all other dungeons, ayleid ruins etc. — Unsigned comment by SwedishBerzerker (talk • contribs) on 12 February 2009
The only location that appears on the standard world map is the cave leading to Pale Pass, namely the Serpent's Trail. That already has an icon on the map. --NepheleTalk 09:57, 12 February 2009 (EST)

Google Chrome

The main Cyrodil map appears not to work with the Google Chrome browser. A lot of the ground textures are not displayed or are out of place and place markers are not shown, either on the map or on the sidebar list.

Fairly minor problem I guess (at last count, only 0.73% of browser traffic was by Chrome), and I can of course simply view via Firefox, but it's a pain nonetheless.

Any ideas what may be causing the problems? — Unsigned comment by 86.24.251.49 (talk) on 1 December 2008

Yes. Google Chrome is still in beta and still has bugs. When I view the map with chrome it works fine after I maximize the window. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 03:23, 3 December 2008 (EST)
Ah, excellent (I was the original bug submitter pre-registration), that works for me too. If I've already got the window maximised, I need to minimise and maximise to get it to work. I also notice that if you go to a place from a wiki page via a map link, the map doesn't often centre correctly, although it's close enough to find what you're looking for. Any ideas why Chrome is causing the bug?

This Map is Awesome. You are Awesome.

Will this be downloadable like the Morrowind map was? I love you.

Archeopterix 01:12, 30 January 2009 (EST)Archeopterix

Thank you. We try :) I've always previously said that, whilst it's technically possible, copyright concerns make it unlikely. Any program would need to duplicate the map in its entirety, which is probably a bit of a no-no. If somebody wants to check with a Bethesda Dev and they say it's okay, I wouldn't mind taking a crack at writing a downloadable version. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 02:58, 30 January 2009 (EST)

Cities

Since I play Oblivion on the PS3, I'm not too familiar with modding for this game (although I have done some modding for PC games in he past, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with this) so forgive me if this is a dumb question: Would it be possible to superimpose image layouts of the cities onto the main overworld map? That way it can look more like a satellite photo of Cyrodiil as if it were a real place as opposed to just being a zone in the game seperate from the zones that each individual city is located in. –168.91.255.100 16:38, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that. We already have "Higher detail map of cities" on the task list, but that just means using the higher-res versions of each city world from the CS as opposed to the low-res Tamriel world version. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 17:26, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Mods Map?

Hey, great map! I can't tell you how much I've used it. I'd like to develop a map like this that shows mod locations, specifically for OblivionRealEstate.com. How much help or resources would you guys be willing to offer to make this happen? -- Unisigned comment by 75.70.19.85 09:29, 28 April 2009

Just adding new locations is not a problem if we wanted to as its just another entry in the database. Currently, however, we're just listing official locations. I'm not sure what thoughts, if any, have been given to include unofficial mod locations. Worst case would have you create and host your own map. The map tiles are just output from the CS and similarily the locations can be output from the master and mod plugins with some basic programming. While the map source is not officially open source I doubt there would be an issue with sharing it (would have to check with the other admins first).
It might be worth discussing the possibility of including unofficial mod locations on the map (or on a completely seperate map), either here or on the Admin Board. -- Daveh 12:57, 7 June 2009 (EDT)
Overlays for mods in the existing map-space is doable, and is already being considered for official mods. Expanding the map causes problems with tile naming, but it's something that would be good to add. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 13:41, 7 June 2009 (EDT)
Well I have seen mod locations being suggested for this map but those are usually dismissed due to a number of good reasons. Over at ORE we were discussing creating our own copy of this map specifically for the mods listed there and it would just save a ton of work if we could share some resources like the map images - which I read seem to have required extensive effort to get clean and uncluttered. I'm sure we'd be willing to give credit and post appropriate copyright notices if it would help :) --75.70.19.85 10:31, 18 June 2009 (EDT)
I'm willing to share the map code and map data but you'll have to check with the other admins for permission as well. I did the original map code but Nephele updated it extensively last year. The original map images were just a plain export from the Construction Set as detailed on Oblivion Map Design. I believe Rpeh and a few other admins/users did all the clean up work so you'd have to get their permission to reuse those images.
Worst case I can just give you the original map code and you can export the images yourself. -- Daveh 11:25, 18 June 2009 (EDT)

New Map Tiles

While I'm testing I'm going to update this section with oddities I notice. Feel free to add to it in either section, or in a new section if there's something you'd like somebody to check with the CS. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 13:21, 8 June 2009 (EDT)

I think this is ready for prime time. The non-rendered trees are a pain, but since they're no worse than we have at the moment I think we can live with it. I'll fix those at some point in the future. So would anybody have any objections to my copying these to the live map directory (assuming I can overwrite Nephele's files)? –Rpeh•T•C•E• 07:51, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
I've just put them live. All looking good so far! –Rpeh•T•C•E• 17:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Things that look odd but are accurate

Actual problems

  • This red dot is a nirnroot noise marker that somehow hasn't been removed. I'll do this one manually at some point. fixed
  • This is another. Very annoying. fixed
  • Darn it. One more. I don't know how I didn't spot these before. fixed
  • Some of these trees haven't rendered properly and look like straight lines instead. That's what usually happens when the high detail flag isn't checked in the CS, but I definitely did have it set, and it also appears that Daveh had the same problem. I'll play around with it, but we may have to paste the trees on manually (or ignore it).
  • Generated one by one, these tiles look fine. There seems to be something about them that always resets the High LOD flag though. I'll fix these when I have time.
  • More flat trees too. Looks like the v1 CSS isn't quite the panacea we hoped.
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