Online talk:Elder Scrolls Historical References

Two IdeasEdit

I also have two obvious references to start this page off. Firstly, our old friend M'aiq has shown up again. Secondly, I was Summoned by a Mortal is an obvious reference to the voice quotes of summoned dremora in skyrim, as well as their behavior of rushing into battle. --AN|L (talk) 00:02, 8 March 2014 (GMT)

It looks like the Oblivion and Skyrim pages only reference M'aiq the liar because he talks about previous games, rather than because he's present in them. So I think you'd need to elaborate a bit for that. As for the other one, is there something particular in the book that you're seeing a connection with? -Thunderforge (talk) 14:57, 13 March 2014 (GMT)

Look at Online:M'aiq the Liar. He makes several references to Skyrim and one about Oblivion. As for the book, compare what the Dremora says during battle in the book to these quotes. Several exact matches. --AN|L (talk) 15:07, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

I agree with both of these. Quite a funny little book. -- Hargrimm^(T) 19:25, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

Brush of TruepaintEdit

Journal of Bravam Lythandas is a clear reference to the brush of truepaint quest from Oblivion. That is all. Jeancey (talk) 00:05, 8 March 2014 (GMT)

Definitely sounds like a reference to that quest, since it was made from Dibella's hair. -Thunderforge (talk) 14:53, 13 March 2014 (GMT)

I don't think this is a specifically historical reference, so much as just an artifact appearing in multiple games. -- Hargrimm^(T) 19:25, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

Ruminations on the Elder ScrollsEdit

Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls can be found in ESO, with an interesting addendum:
Note by Ancestor Moth Brother Quintus Nerevelus: Found this at the back of the library stacks behind the Scroll of Rhunen. It had obviously been there a long time, yet the printer's sigil notes its publication date as "4E 195." This is obviously a transcription error. I think.
-- Croaker (talk) 03:24, 8 March 2014 (GMT)

I know speculation is meant for the forums, but my opinion is as to whether or not this a reference to the Elder Scrolls disappearance of 4E 175 --Resonance Gamer (talk) 07:07, 8 March 2014 (GMT)

Not directly. Both the scrolls' disappearance and the Ruminations' anachronistic appearance are referencing the scrolls' known loose relationship with conventional time and space, as shown in An Accounting of the Elder Scrolls. -- Hargrimm^(T) 18:45, 8 March 2014 (GMT)

Doubtfully a reference. More likely they just added the note so they could have the book in the game without a lore issue. --AN|L (talk) 15:07, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

Staff of Chaos and NumidiumEdit

In the quest Long Lost Lore, Sheogorath says that the tasks he has in mind are "Nothing so difficult as, say, reassembling the Staff of Chaos or rebuilding the Numidium." Those two tasks were the main focus of Arena and Daggerfall respectively. Interestingly, the Staff of Chaos was not split into pieces until Jagar Tharn did it in 3E 389 and Numidium was intact until Tiber Septim used it in 2E 896, meaning that Sheogorath is alluding to their destruction and need for repair, which will take place in the future relative to Elder Scrolls Online. -Thunderforge (talk) 13:36, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

Agreed. --AN|L (talk) 15:07, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

Totally agree with this. Possibly the ideal poster child for the kind of thing this page is mean to contain. -- Hargrimm^(T) 19:25, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

Mehrunes' RazorEdit

Trouble-Finder in Stonefalls tells several stories about his uncanny bad luck. In the last one he says: "I bought a cheap dagger from this pawn broker in Ebonheart. I wore it on my belt and these cultists started chasing me, yelling, 'The Razor! The Razor!'" This is a reference to Mehrunes' Razor, an artifact that has appeared in several games. -Thunderforge (talk) 13:36, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

I don't really think that's a reference. Mehrunes Razor is a piece of Elder Scrolls lore, the fact that it is mentioned in the game is not notable, as being chased by cultists shouting about the razor doesn't appear in any other game. It's more a reference to the bad luck of Trouble-Finder, he buys a dagger that just happens to be the razor. — Unsigned comment by Anil (talk • contribs)

I added a reference to it at Lore:Mehrunes' Razor. Feel free to edit it if it isn't quite right. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 15:21, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

Once Trouble-Finder's NPC page gets made and his dialogue added, it should be used as the source for that statement on the Mehrunes Razor page. Hopefully I will remember to do so myself :) -- Hargrimm^(T) 19:25, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

In the quest A Grave Matter, you have to decipher a password to open a lock box, the contents of which are referred to as "an old blade", and later in the conversation Llotha mentions that she doesn't shave, so she'll just sell it. Could it be Mehrunes Razor in the box?

I havn't played ESO yet, but unless there is any confirmation that it indeed IS Meruhnes Razor, going on on this is pure speculation and more suited to the Forums. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 16:53, 18 February 2015 (GMT)

Point of these pagesEdit

Given some recent submissions and with the full release coming in a couple weeks, I feel like we should clarify just what this (along with the other Historical References) page is for. Specifically, this is NOT the place to point out every object or character who appears in multiple games. If we go that route, especially with this game covering such a wide area as it does, there will be thousands of them. An artifact like Mehrunes' Razor, for example, doesn't belong here. It belongs on Lore:Artifacts. What these pages are for is more oblique references, like M'aiq the Liar mentioning features in other games (and NOT the fact that M'aiq appears in multiple games). It's for games making out-of-universe references to other games in the series, not for things that are common within the lore of the game. We have a whole namespace for common lore, and that's where things like that belong. Every entry should be of the "breaking-the-fourth-wall", easter-egg variety (though easter-eggs that are not historical references have their own page), making subtle nods to the mechanics or features of other games in the series themselves, rather than objects, characters, or events within the stories of those games. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 14:51, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

I added a notice, feel free to tweak it if it doesn't summarize your point exactly. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 14:59, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

WidowmakerEdit

The quest article is still a skeleton, but it seems obvious that The Naked Nord is a dead ringer for the Morrowind quest Widowmaker. --AN|L (talk) 23:52, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

I could have sworn I already suggested that.... maybe I just mentioned it on IRC and forgot to mention it here. Jeancey (talk) 23:59, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

Thane of WhiterunEdit

After obtaining the Coral Heart in Stonefalls, Holgunn says: "Then Ebonheart is saved! We are once again in your debt. Maybe we'll make you the new Thane of Whiterun. After all, they'll take anyone!" Seems like a reference to the ease with which you become thane in Skyrim. —Legoless (talk) 17:00, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

Sounds like a reference to me. --AN|L (talk) 20:32, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

TarhielEdit

Continuing this reference line, From Nirn to the Aether is another Tarhiel reference. --AN|L (talk) 15:46, 26 April 2014 (GMT)

I considered adding post here about it, but I lack the context that this book appears under - so it may be incidental. I may have got the "wizard" part wrong. --Jimeee (talk) 15:58, 26 April 2014 (GMT)

Knee PainEdit

The book Guard Duty makes reference to an old guard having knee pain. This is an obvious reference to the guard quote from Skyrim. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:55, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

Absolutely. Add it. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 22:01, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

I'm not convinced it's a reference. The book says "Today, I was assigned a partner to make sure I don't show too much initiative and wander from my post. He's incredibly jaded. It's demoralizing, especially when he keeps complaining about the pain in his knee. If I keep at this, though, I'm sure I can get a promotion to someplace better.". I think it's too vague as he does not suggest that he was an adventurer, that his knee pain was due to an injury (could be arthritis for all we know), or that he's a guard because of his knee pain. Is every guard with a pain in the knee automatically a reference to "I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow to the knee"? -Thunderforge (talk) 00:55, 30 April 2014 (GMT)

I would bet anything on this being a reference. The 'arrow to the knee' joke was absolutely rampant all across the internet for months after Skyrim's release to a ludicrous degree, and there's no way a guard would be specifically mentioned as having pain in a singular knee without it being a reference to it. If it was arthritis or something generic, it would be more natural to use the plural, as most ailments affect both knees, not just one. -- Hargrimm^(T) 01:19, 30 April 2014 (GMT)

Cheese - Moved from articleEdit

Jamcdonald120 (Talk) added the following line:

In the quest Long Lost Lore, you go to Cheesemonger's Hollow. This is a possible reference to Oblivion's Shivering Isles' :Understanding Madness quest when Sheogorath says "Cheese for everyone! Wait, scratch that. Cheese for no one."

Thoughts? -- SarthesArai ^Talk 15:25, 10 June 2014 (GMT)

Yes. Cheese and Sheogorath seem to go together. --AN|L (talk) 15:30, 10 June 2014 (GMT)

That's just his character though. I don't know if that is a specific reference to the quest... It would be like the Dark Brotherhood killing someone and then saying "That's a reference to Skyrim and Oblivion because the Dark Brotherhood killed people in those games." It just doesn't really strike me as a specific reference. Jeancey (talk) 15:56, 10 June 2014 (GMT)

True, it's mentioned in his Skyrim dialogue as well, but it's a specific part of his character, not just something like the dark brotherhood killing people. I think it can be a reference if it references a specific aspect of a character or group. If the reference was, "Sheogorath is insane and unpredictable", it wouldn't be a reference, but it's a specific foible of his. For example, we list the spider in the DB sanctuary in Skyrim as a reference to the rat in the sanctuary in Oblivion. --AN|L (talk) 19:03, 10 June 2014 (GMT)

It still isn't a reference, it is part of his character. He likes cheese. Historical references are "clear references to other events, issues, or game mechanics," none of which really applies here. If he offered you cheese at the beginning of the quest, and then at the end decided no one got cheese, that could be a reference, but as it stands, it just isn't specific enough to point to something other than his character liking cheese, which is a matter of lore and not a reference to the quest. Jeancey (talk) 19:20, 10 June 2014 (GMT)

Colovian Fur HelmetsEdit

During the quest to free Southpoint of insanity, Sheogorath says something to the effect of "I've been down here so long I've found where the Colovians keep their fur helms." Vicano (talk) 21:22, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

Ok, and what is it a reference to? Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:27, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

The Colovian Fur Helmets from Morrowind, which have been conspicuously absent since then. Vicano (talk) 21:32, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

Sounds pretty concrete, and Sheogorath's comment could be construed as a comment on their absence. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:34, 22 June 2014 (GMT)

Sounds good to me. --AN|L (talk) 16:38, 23 June 2014 (GMT)

Oblivions M'aiq the Liar even quoted he's missing his one. So it could be even a double-reference. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 16:51, 23 June 2014 (GMT)

MarshmerrowEdit

In the quest A Grave Matter, you have to decipher a password which turns out to be "marshmerrow", an ingredient from Morrowind. --AN|L (talk) 19:31, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

Are you actually questioning this? Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 19:36, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

I removed it because it needs to go through the talk page no matter how obvious it seems and who is proposing it. I actually support it as a reference, seeing as marshmerrow itself doesn't appear in ESO. --AN|L (talk) 20:59, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

Not really, such a glaring reference doesn't need discussed. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:05, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

I saw that as well. I wasn't sure about mentioning it however. I agree with what Anil said.Lorenut (talk) 23:22, 3 July 2014 (GMT)

I've removed it. This page is not for "common items found in multiple games". Even though marshmerrow technically only appears in Morrowind, it's still just a basic in-universe foodstuff of no relevance to the events or mechanics of Morrowind. Might as well list kwama eggs. —Legoless (talk) 01:32, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

It isn't described or mentioned as an item, merely an apparently random word that mean nothing to anyone unaware of its previous appearance. I was unaware of it myself, but aware that it might be in reference to something so I googled it. Without any context to explain its mention in the game, it is a reference because of its obliqueness. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 01:57, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

It is a in-game term and an in-game password. A random mention of something that isn't present in the game but is present in the game world isn't a historical reference. Someone mentioning the city of Vivec isn't a historical reference for example. It is simply in-game knowledge. Just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean the in-game characters don't know what it is. I'm with Legoless on this one, it isn't a reference. Jeancey (talk) 02:00, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

Not usually one to use this sort of reasoning, but would you say that the mention of Jiub in Oblivion dialogue is not a reference and should be removed from that page? Goblins wearing netch armor. The Blade of Woe, Shadowmere, greenmote, painted troll fat, or shadowbanish wine on the Skyrim page. Most of those even have some explanation as to what the potential reference is. This page is not about what people in the game see, it is for people playing the game. Someone mentioning a place is not a reference yet it appearing is (Red Mountain, White-Gold Tower), I fail to grasp the logic used there. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 02:14, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

I wouldn't have supported most of those. Juib mentioned is a reference because they only made him a saint because of how popular he was with fans. The others shouldn't really be on the page, in my opinion. Jeancey (talk) 02:17, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

Well obviously the npcs in the game know about Jiub and his exploits, so his being mentioned makes sense to them, meaning it isn't a reference. Someone who hasn't played Morrowind wouldn't get it, but then that's not what this page is for. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 02:22, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

(edit conflict) Except that he wasn't a saint in Morrowind. He was just some random guy. The statement also talked about how he destroyed all the cliff racers, which were a hated enemy of players. Like people actually hated them, with a vengeance. The dialogue brought together a fan favorite and the destruction of a fan foe, clearly intentionally. Jeancey (talk) 02:25, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

So a sentence about someone from a previous game that contains the reason he is being spoken about is a reference, but an oblique mention of an item that makes no sense outside of being a blatant reference to that item (i.e. there is absolutely nothing within ESO explaining this mention), is not a reference. Perhaps its an Easter Egg then. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 02:31, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

The difference between this and the examples you give is the context of the games. ESO features all of Tamriel, including Morrowind. Offhandedly mentioning marshmerrow in a game that includes many other Morrowind ingredients isn't a deliberate throwback, it's just good lore integration. Mentioning netch jelly in the vanilla fantasy world of Oblivion is notable for being the only reference to Morrowind ingredients. —Legoless (talk) 14:21, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

But as the Silencer has already said, the mention of marshmerrow is out of context. If it was just another ingredient that you could gather, than I agree that it wouldn't be a reference. But it doesn't appear as an ingredient. It appears as a password, and the password is its only appearance in the game. --AN|L (talk) 14:52, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

Obviously my attempts to make you see the illogic of your argument isn't working, so it must be pointed out blatantly. Your argument against marshmerrow excludes netch also, but your argument to include netch leather allows for the marshmerrow one. All I'm asking for is a coherent argument applied to all references, which clearly not the case here. Marshmerrow is a reference according to every possible definition of a reference, including the one espoused on the page itself. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 15:00, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

Its exclusion is common sense. Mentioning marshmerrow somewhere is of no interest as a "reference", and blindly applying definitions is, as always, counterproductive. Linking to the lore entry on the quest page would serve to explain the word to anyone who doesn't know what it is. It's not a reference, it's a crop. —Legoless (talk) 15:16, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

I'm not blindly following a definition, I'm asking you to use one that isn't contradictory. A reference is usually something that lacks context where it is placed, refers to a previous game or something in lore, and would be readily recognised by someone with sufficient knowledge. Marshmerrow satisfies all of these, while many entries fail them, especially the context one. Something that has context is not usually a reference because of said context (i.e. it has an explanation within the game for being there), something marshmerrow clearly lacks as it is in essence a random word. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 15:23, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

Revising the NoticeEdit

In the post above it became clear that the purpose of the page isn't clear enough in the notice. On the other pages references have included mentions of items and NPCs from previous games, and there doesn't seem to be any reason to stop that here. The notice (in my opinion at least) is meant to exclude things that are actually in the game, such as artifacts, or someone like Vanus Galerion appearing, as they cannot be a reference to themselves. This conflicts with the inclusion of places on previous games pages (such as the White-Gold Tower being visible in Skyrim), where this 'definition' should eventually extend.

Mentions of items or NPCs should not be excluded while events and glitches are allowed. This is the clearest definition of a reference and the opening sentence of the notice already is "This page is specifically for references to the rest of the series." I believe the clarification sentence that follows should be changed to "Instead, only mentions of something featured in, or references to the events of, a previous entry of the series, should be included." This is more in line with how these pages are meant to work. These pages, like the Eggs pages, are not for things that make sense to a person in the game (else books would be a viable entry), they are for things that do not have any other reason to be there. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 03:28, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

I'm all for this. I think it makes a ton of sense. Like The Silencer said "mentions of items or NPCs should not be excluded while events and glitches are allowed." This is just random and I am pretty sure it doesn't physically exist in this game, but it does in another game. That is a pretty clear reference. Lorenut (talk) 05:41, 20 July 2014 (GMT)

Chorrol ReferencesEdit

Two references to Oblivion are made in the dialogue of NPCs in Chorrol. Darvell Litte believes that he can sense magic and regrets not becoming a mage, a claim which his wife finds ridiculous but which his descendant might agree with. Lisien Motierre can be found in the chapel ruins, and will angrily announce that not even the gods can chase the Motierres from Chorrol. This is an ironic statement considering Francois and his elaborate scheme to escape the city. —Legoless (talk) 20:12, 23 July 2014 (GMT)

I agree with both of these. Jeancey (talk) 20:57, 23 July 2014 (GMT)

I've added them. —Legoless (talk) 22:54, 3 August 2014 (GMT)

On a somewhat related note, near Bruma is the Applewatch Inn, run by Rasala and Leono Draconis. In Oblivion, of course, the settlement of Applewatch was where the matron of the Draconis family lived, for the DB quest. Jeancey (talk) 23:37, 5 August 2014 (GMT)

The Rusty Argonian BladeEdit

At the docks in Davon's Watch in Stonefalls, there is a ship called "The Rusty Argonian Blade", which seems like a clear nod to The Lusty Argonian Maid. --Xyzzy ^Talk 03:45, 3 August 2014 (GMT)

Agreed. --AN|L (talk) 14:14, 3 August 2014 (GMT)

Agreed and added. -- Hargrimm^(T) 12:42, 2 October 2014 (GMT)

Dawnguard referenceEdit

One of the bankers in Elden Root says something like: "If we were attacked by armored trolls, our trolls would win, because our trolls are vampires". Dawnguard reference? -Vordur Steel-Hammer2 (talk) 03:03, 2 October 2014 (GMT)

Other than the word vampire is there any connection to dawnguard? I haven't played dawnguard, so I don't really know... Jeancey (talk) 03:06, 2 October 2014 (GMT)

Armored Trolls are used by the Dawnguard in battle. Vampire Trolls are a possible next step in a kind of arms race, so I think it is indeed a DG reference. --Holomay (talk) 04:24, 2 October 2014 (GMT)

Seems like a nod, since armored trolls don't appear anywhere other than Dawnguard. --Xyzzy ^Talk 05:57, 2 October 2014 (GMT)

Actually there are trolls with armor in ESO as well, but I agree that it seems like a reference. —Legoless (talk) 17:42, 3 October 2014 (GMT)

A Night to ForgetEdit

The quest A Night to Forget involves running around Rawl'kha, retrieving various items that a drunken apprentice lost the previous night. The name seems like a reference to the Skyrim quest A Night To Remember. —Legoless (talk) 20:10, 20 December 2014 (GMT)

Strange, I don't remember that quest in Rawl'kha. But if it is as you describe it, then I agree that's likely a reference to the Skyrim one. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 20:20, 20 December 2014 (GMT)

Unaware of this discussion I tried earlier this morning to start a similar discussion on the quest's talk page. The quest is similar enough, and I must agree it quite possibility is a reference. (I am not happy with the use of the somewhat more ambitious term "historical" in cases like this, but as long as we have started using it, I am quite sure this is the place to mention it, in addition to quite possibly a note on each quest page.) —MortenOSlash (talk) 18:10, 8 January 2015 (GMT)

I'll go ahead and add it to this page anyway. —Legoless (talk) 18:50, 8 January 2015 (GMT)

Would it be unproblematic if I added a note about it on each quest too? —MortenOSlash (talk) 08:08, 9 January 2015 (GMT)

Moved from Oblivion:Jirolin DoranEdit

"In the Elder Scrolls Online, there is an NPC named Domitius Doran who makes the claim that "500 years from now, there'll still be Dorans in Chorrol"."

A user left this as a note on the aforementioned page. I just wanted to check here to see if this NPC really says this. If so, that's a pretty solid historical reference. •WoahBro^►talk 00:01, 3 March 2015 (GMT)

He is in the game, and he does say something along those lines. I don't know what the exact quote is. There are like 3 or 4 other references in Chorrol too. Jeancey (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2015 (GMT)

Some people would call this junk...Edit

In Elden Root, near one of the entrances, is a Khajiiti merchant, who as one of his greetings says something to the effect of "Some people would call this junk. This one also calls this junk. Selling at discount." Seems like a direct reference to that skeevy merchant in Skyrim's Whiterun who frequently says "Some people would call this junk. I call them treasures!" Need to get the exact names and quotes, but it does seem like an intentional reference. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 14:25, 26 April 2015 (GMT)

"Some may call this junk. Me, I call them treasures." - it's a generic dialogue line used by several general goods merchants in Skyrim, not just Belethor. The Elden Root merchant is Nagaddu.  ~Shuryard (talk) 14:45, 26 April 2015 (GMT)

Okay, Belethor is just the most memorable I guess. Probably because Whiterun is the city most people see first in the game, and you generally visit there the most often. Either way, the line does seem to be a deliberate reference. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 02:46, 27 April 2015 (GMT)

When I heard Nagaddu talking, I thought about Belethor as well :) So, I do think it is intentional.  ~Shuryard (talk) 02:52, 27 April 2015 (GMT)

As another opinion, I think that this is without a doubt an intentional reference. •WoahBro^►talk 04:05, 27 April 2015 (GMT)

Scout SnowhunterEdit

In Eastmarch, Scout Snowhunter is a NPC who takes you to Skuldafn through the secret tunnel. In Skyrim, you are taken to Skuldafn by Odahviing, whose name means "Snow-Hunter-Wing" in the Dragon language. Do you think the Scout might be a subtle nod at Odahviing? --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 16:04, 12 May 2015 (GMT)

Seems notable, as long as that's the only place you see the NPC. —Legoless (talk) 16:40, 12 May 2015 (GMT)

Throne Keeper FarvadEdit

Throne Keeper Farvad, a priest of Tu'whacca crucial to the Alik'r questline, claims to be able to communicate with his god as if he stood right next to him, which sometimes leads to some funny dialogue. In this, he almost precisely mirrors the behavior of Florentius Baenius from Dawnguard, who believes he can talk with Arkay (who is the same god as Tu'whacca after all). Do you think it can be a reference? --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 12:31, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't really see it. Different gods and cultures, for one. Secondly, Florentius is practically insane in Skyrim, while Farvad seems at least more level-headed in his zealotry. Two priests literally 'knowing their god on a personal level' is basically a trope anyway. —Legoless (talk) 14:13, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Various references to Skyrim Guard DialogueEdit

Aside from the aforementioned Guard Duty book, I've noticed quite a few guards, specifically ones in the two available Skyrim zones, have some lines that are clear homages to the Guard Dialogue of the previous game. One that specifically comes to mind (I don't remember exactly how it went) was a reference to "Let me guess, someone stole your sweetroll?"

Actually, come to think of it, the Online namespace might just (eventually) need it's own Guard Dialogue page like Skyrim's. Schiffy^(Talk) 04:25, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Some actual quotes would probably be needed to add it to this page, but that should be made easier by the new subtitles feature. —Legoless (talk) 12:37, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

It also takes a slight amount of luck to get the quote you want to hear. Again, this is why I think a whole new Guard Dialogue page might be useful, and then any (obvious or not) historical references can be copied over to here. Schiffy^(Talk) 19:16, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

One thing to keep in mind is that guard dialogue in ESO works somewhat different than in Skyrim. In Skyrim, guards (and only guards) had a lot of dialogue triggered by certain quests or other factors. In ESO, there are rumors, which work similarly but can be heard from most people, not just guards (and they seem to be race-specific). However, there still are some lines specific to the guards (like "There are no rules here, but I'll tell you when you break one", and these would be the ones to be documented on the Guard Dialogue page. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 07:11, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

On the note of generic rumour dialogue, I heard a Nord guard say something like "Can't stand these Dark Elves" right next to his fellow guard who happened to be a Dunmer. Just thought you guys would like to know. --Rezalon (talk) 07:25, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

That is more than likely a generic line that a guard happened to say. But usually the stuff about laws or insulting your intelligence is going to be specific to guards, such as "You break the law, and it'll break you" (or from a Nord guard "You break the law, I break your skull"), and "If you're trying to rely on wit, I'd say you're halfway there..." Schiffy^(Talk) 07:55, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Sheogorath, the madness in Southpoint and butterflies (moved from Online talk:Easter Eggs)Edit

In the second floor of Elden Root where the services, the idle conversation between Azbishan and Gerethel is always about the madness in Southpoint before and after the quest The Grip of Madness.

After the quest, at some point in their conversation, Gerethel mocks Azbishan by asking if his sister was seeing butterflies. I don't remember the exact dialog while I type this, but the dialog repeats itself when re-entering the area.

Considering that it was Sheogorath who infected Southpoint with madness, I think that Gerethel's mention of butterflies is a very subtle nod at the butterflies seen upon first entering the Shivering Isles in TESIV:Oblivion. Thoughts?AgShield (talk) 09:27, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Sounds plausible. If we can find the exact quote, I'd be okay with including this. Zul do onikaan^{Laan tinvaak} 17:39, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Not too subtle at all, and it's not the only time butterflies are mentioned. It's more of a catchphrase for Sheogorath-related stuff now, a bit like 'cheese'. Not sure we should favour this particular line of dialogue over the other multitude of references. —Legoless (talk) 17:55, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Recalling from my memories, the line is "A Daedric Prince? Did your sister see a clutch of butterflies around there?". At the end of The Mad God's Bargain, Valaste will also mention butterflies, and that they "flap, flap, flap thier wings". Skyrim's Sheogorath talks about butterflies, too. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 19:51, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Actually, Sheo disappears in a cloud of butterflies at least once during the Mages Guild questline, in Circus of Cheerful Slaughter. I had a screenshot while I was writing up the detailed walkthrough, but I think I deleted it. —likelolwhat ^{talk lulzy to me} 21:45, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Cybiades and Cosh HallEdit

It appears there was initially some plans related to Cybiades for ESO. In the original datamined draft of Mudcrab Order Request, there were a couple mentions of Chef He-Cuts-the-Flesh living on Cybiades, though this has been edited out. In Daggerfall, the only location on the island was "Ruins of Cosh Hall", and in ESO, the alter-ego Guildmaster Nicolas is going under is "Merchant Lord Cosh". The Rim of the Sky (talk) 02:51, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

This stuff was all added when a bunch of Dark Brotherhood stuff got added, so I would hesitate to add anything to this page until it is actually released. If it isn't ever added, then I wouldn't think we would add it. This page is for Historical References that are in the game, not ones that were never actually added. Jeancey (talk) 04:00, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

I made the exact same connection. Cybiades relates to Thieves Guild, not Dark Brotherhood. Even though the location changed, the reference to Cosh Hall is definitely notable. —Legoless (talk) 08:46, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Is it notable if it never existed? (By which I mean, the note was never released in-game with that text.) I don't know how far adrift from canon this page is allowed to go. There's nothing in the existing Mudcrab Order Request which mentions Cybiades, so there's no way to link Cosh through the note. But if it was just about linking Cosh as he exists in-game to Cosh Hall, with maybe a passing reference to the early plans for Thieves Guild, then that would probably make sense. It's all about the angle you see it from, I guess. --Enodoc (talk) 13:52, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

We'd definitely have to be lenient to allow cut content on this page, but I think it's still noteworthy considering how strong the reference would have been if the location hadn't been changed. Cosh Hall is notable since most regions in that game had hundreds of locations, while Cybiades had only one. And like you said, an argument can be made for inclusion based on name alone. If anything, the datamined info simply strengthens the case. —Legoless (talk) 16:01, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

I've never realized that there was a Cosh Hall on Cybiades in Daggerfall. If that's the case, I also think it's notable enough for a reference, especially in light of the fact that Cybiades "almost" became the TG DLC main location before it was changed to Hew's Bane. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 19:06, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

For the record I'm not suggesting to add cut content info to the page, I'm just saying the alias "Cosh" is likely a reference to "Ruins of Cosh Hall" in Daggerfall, which was the only location on Cybiades. Since Zenimax originally planned for TG/Abah's Landing to be related to Cybiades, this is likely a little Easter Egg left over referencing Cosh Hall, probably an inside joke among developers or players who dug deep enough and figured it out. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 21:35, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

That's not likely an easter egg. The character Cosh was already present in the game files when TG was still going to be located on Cybiades, and even though the location eventually changed, the character's name did not. If the DLC hadn't moved to Hew's Bane, it would be logical to assume that Cosh Hall seen in Daggerfall is named after him. Still, even though this idea was scrapped, I believe it's worth referencing. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 21:58, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

(←) I've noted this coincidence on the page, and left it up to the reader to draw any other conclusions. —Legoless (talk) 16:33, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Shadowbanish WineEdit

A note appears in the latest DLC, the Shadowbanish Vintners Note, which is a pretty clear reference to the collectible Shadowbanish Wine from Oblivion. I feel it is fairly cut and dry, but let me know if you want more information. :) Jeancey (talk) 15:50, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

The Trader's Cove is filled with Shadowbanish NPCs as well. Pretty clear-cut. —Legoless (talk) 16:11, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Another MotierreEdit

In addition to Lisien Motierre in Chorrol we now have Mirabelle Motierre, who, like her future family members Amaund and Francois, is involved with the Dark Brotherhood - this time as a member. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 16:33, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

An obvious reference (although it's worth pointing out the current inexplicable controversy caused by this claim). —Legoless (talk) 16:35, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

#debateLegoless Tib (talk) 16:50, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. The fact that all three are called or could be considered "naughty" further validates the claim. Regarding Francois, our Argonian enforcer friend says, "The Dark Brotherhood? Oh, you have been a naughty boy, Motierre, haven't you? Stand aside, assassin! Motierre is mine! My employers demand it!" Regarding Amaund, Astrid says, "The Elder Council... Oh, now that explains quite a bit. Motierre, you naughty, naughty boy. Hiring the Dark Brotherhood to help you rise beyond your station. Delicious." And now we have Mirabelle, who looking at her dialogue would fit the "naughty" description. It's probably not noteworthy, but if she's ever referred to as a "naughty girl" it's interesting to see that all three of these Dark Brotherhood Motierre's are referred to as naughty especially when the term is used nearly nowhere else within the games outside of some Nord names. Forfeit (talk) 19:15, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

I have also recognized the Motierre's shared naughtyness, but I haven't heard her refered to as a naughty girl despite looking for it. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 20:03, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Marie ElenaEdit

So the first contract in Oblivion takes you to The Marie Elena, a pirate ship docked at the Imperial City Waterfront. During Dark Revelations, you'll come accross Captain Marie Elena inside the Enclave of the Hourglass. Another name from a prevous game appearing in this DLC for ESO... -- SarthesArai ^Talk 20:32, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that too. She's a pirate captain of the Red Sails, so I'd say there's more than enough of a link. —Legoless (talk) 21:14, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Agree. Well spotted SarthesArai! Tib (talk) 21:51, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Flyyyyyin' in the skyyyy, cliffracer flies so hiiiiighEdit

The infamous Cliffracer Song, sung by Aldos Othran in Oblivion, makes a reappearance in ESO - it can be heard sung by Valen Andrethi in Davon's Watch during the quest Exquisite Tears, and possibly by other people in other places too. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 19:14, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Handprint NotesEdit

The note in Voices in the Dark seems pretty similar to the Mysterious Note in Skyrim. As well as being very similar in content, they're both delivered by a courier wearing similar clothes. - KINMUNE (TALK) 02:43, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

I guess, but it's more just in keeping with the style of the Dark Brotherhood rather than an overt reference to the Skyrim note. There are lots of similarities between the Brotherhood questlines in Oblivion and Skyrim, and in Skyrim and ESO. ESO is obviously just capitalising on the "letter with handprint" invitation rather than the nocturnal visitor approach. Not really notable. The messenger isn't wearing similar clothes either, it's an Imperial tunic in a style not seen in Skyrim. —Legoless (talk) 05:37, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Undying FanEdit

UP at the Hammerdeath Arena, there's a ghost called "The Undying Fan". I think it's a reference to the Adoring Fan, especially considering how in Legends he never dies. - KINMUNE ﴾TALK﴿ 14:18, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Solid connection. Without resorting to underhanded methods, he would always respawn in Oblivion (game). The history of the Oblivion page is littered with creative methods to kill him, and has a few permanent methods. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 14:39, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

CorkieEdit

• In the quest finding the family, one of the guars you have to find is named Corkie. This is likely a reference to the morrowind quest Rent and Taxes, in which your payment includes a guar named corky.

This was removed from the page, but I think it's a pretty safe add per the anon. —Legoless (talk) 20:14, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Another guar from the same quest is named Rollie, a clear reference to Rollie the Guar from Morrowind. Makes the point even stronger. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 23:06, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

They aren't on the page? Why aren't they on the page? -- SarthesArai ^Talk 15:59, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Eats-to-LearnEdit

Eats-To-Learn may be a reference to eating alchemy ingredients to learn their traits/properties. - KINMUNE ﴾TALK﴿ 05:28, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I can see this being the case. It wouldn't be the first time an Argonian name is used as some sort of play-on-words to describe their personality or job description. Echo (talk) 06:21, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Does she actually have any relation to alchemy though? Doesn't seem like it from the article. —Legoless (talk) 09:35, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

We are very much left to speculate. The fact that she wanted to be a magician, while alchemy being a kind of magic in some TES games, could indicate an intended connection. On the other hand, we have no means to know if it was intended. It might be something to mention in the talk page of her article, if something should be added later, as we lack more substantial evidence? —MortenOSlash (talk) 17:29, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Red QueenEdit

A rumour in Oblivion states: "Dervera Romalen is sure proud of the Newlands Lodge. I think she's especially happy that the Red Queen drinks there." This line seems to relate to an unfinished quest from that game. ESO happens to feature a drink called Red Queen's Eye-Opener, which seems like far too much of a coincidence to not be a reference to that rumour. I've already noted this on the related Oblivion article, but I think it should go on this page too. —Legoless (talk) 05:10, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and added it. —Legoless (talk) 03:42, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Tarhiel (again)Edit

This was already proposed three years ago, but I think the note From Nirn to the Aether is an obvious reference to Tarhiel. It describes research on how to use magicka to jump really high (as a way to gain access to Aetherius), it is found in a place that looks like a ritual site, and finally the Scrolls of Icarian Flight had a text saying "FROM THE EARTH TO THE AETHER... AND BACK" written on them in the Daedric alphabet. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 13:35, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

What you are missing is that there is the body of a Bosmer named Icarian next to the book. The addition of the body is a big selling point for me. I think this is what was missing from the first proposal. I see no reason not to add this now. Jeancey (talk) 16:31, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree. —Legoless (talk) 18:47, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Huh. You're right. I didn't find him because he lies on another island next to the one where the note is. This looks important as it explains how the name "Icarian" ended up in the ES universe, and if we ever make a lore page about Tarhiel, we could note that he tried to achieve what Icarian couldn't (because he named the scrolls after him), but failed just the same.

In any case, I think it'd be obvious even without the body, so I'll add it. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 20:57, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Infernal city/Lord of souls referenceEdit

I've found a reference to the novels by Gregory Keyes in ESO, in the thieves guild quest Shell Game. The former friendship between Anais and Walks-Softly is a clear reference to the friendship between Annaïg and Mere-Glim in the novels. My question is, should this reference be placed here or somewhere else? Marilianne (talk) 18:47, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

How so? Mere-Glim was not a pet. I don't see any intentional reference here. —Legoless (talk) 20:04, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Reference to Skyrim Guard dialogue in ESOEdit

If Ennia is spoken to, one of her greetings is: "Let me guess. You're looking for someplace to buy sweetrolls.". Am I right in thinking this is a reference to the Skyrim guards, who sometimes say: "Let me guess... someone stole your sweetroll."? If so, that would make this a continuation of the joke. — Unsigned comment by KriHavok (talk • contribs) at 14:33 on 14 April 2017

Yep, that sounds like a reference to me. ~ Alarra ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

+1 —Legoless (talk) 00:27, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Tracking the Arena referece to Skyrim's omitted Windhelm ArenaEdit

It seems likely the Windhelm part of the book Tracking the Arena is a reference to the omitted Windhelm Pit Arena that was at one point supposed to be in Skyrim. —MortenOSlash (talk) 08:04, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

I don't think so. That book discusses a "Skyrim Arena", and in all likelihood relates to this round in DSA. Notably, it was not located in Windhelm. It's a magical Daedric arena that apparently appears all over Tamriel. Also, Windhelm actually has an arena in ESO: it's called the Hall of Trials and doesn't bear much resemblance the unused TES5 location. —Legoless (talk) 12:46, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Reference to DawnguardEdit

This contraband item here [1] seems to be a callback to the item of the same name which appeared in Dawnguard. It even looks identical. Thoughts? Contraptions (talk) 14:08, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Think it's safe to say that it is the item seen in Dawnguard. I suppose it's obscure enough to be a reference, but we generally don't mention reappearing items (e.g. artifacts) on these pages. —Legoless (talk) 14:21, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Sotha SilEdit

Should Sotha Sil's foreshadowing of Almalexia and her threat not be included here? Timeoin (talk) 12:25, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Sounds like a clear reference to me -- SarthesArai ^Talk 14:14, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Bringing it back here from the main page: I don't remember Sotha Sil talking about Almalexia as a threat, just Aios talking about "Prospect Almalexia". -- SarthesArai ^Talk 16:31, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

To be clear, AIOS identifies 3 potential events which could result in the destruction of Sotha Sil. Sil's defence system has Almalexia hardcoded in as an existential threat. So yes, this is definitely a reference to the events of Tribunal, and in fact Sil's prior knowledge of his death has subsequently featured quite prominently in Legends. —Legoless (talk) 21:46, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Sotha Sil (again)Edit

After completing the storyline, Seht/Sotha Sil will refer to you as the "prisoner". A nod to the fact that the Hero starts every game in a prison? Timeoin (talk) 21:04, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Zuuk VillageEdit

Zuuk is described in the game as being named after the famed Kothringi. Referencing the books which have appeared in Morrowind-onwards? Timeoin (talk) 21:20, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Ebonheart (Moved from page (no pun intended))Edit

• In the Archcanon's Office can be found a note entitled On Moving Ebonheart. It nearly explains the fact that Ebonheart is no longer in Vvardenfell, and describes its future location "south of Vivec".

I removed the aforementioned point from the page, as I don't see it being discussed here. Additionally, Ebonheart has never been in Vvardenfell before, but has always stood at its location south of what for a time was Vivec City. The Imperial fortress of Ebonheart we see in TES3 is a different settlement (the "other" Ebonheart being called "Old Ebonheart" by that time), and while I think the note is a nod to that, the sentence has to be reworded. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 16:31, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

This is an obvious reference to the fact that TES3 nearly retconned the existence of Arena's city of Ebonheart out of existence. No NPCs in TES3 will mention the fact that Vvardenfell's Ebonheart is in fact named after another city right across the bay. ESO brought the original city back to prominence, and the note in ESOMW is quite obviously a retroactive measure to try to explain the origins of the Vvardenfell settlement's name. Admittedly, "Vivec wanted his own version" is a bit of a weird explanation. —Legoless (talk) 21:46, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

So its a reference (of sorts) retconning the TES3 one. (Ill admit, I havent played Arena as much as I should have) Timeoin (talk) 03:09, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

I never wanted to contest the fact itself, but the wording. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 15:25, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

I was more wondering whether it would go on THIS page, or the TES3 one :) Timeoin (talk) 17:49, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

This page is the correct one, as there was no precedence for two Ebonhearts when Morrowind came out. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 19:08, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Well... good! So, assuming we have consensus about it being added, what should be added? (Not realising the Arena bit means that what I had added probably needs rewording. And whilst I'm on that topic - sorry about not adding it here. I had a moment and saw something that should probably be added that somehow was overlooked.) Timeoin (talk) 23:53, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

I'd go for something like: In the Archcanon's Office can be found a note entitled On Moving Ebonheart. It foreshadows the fact that a second settlement called Ebonheart will appear in Vvardenfell in the Third Era. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 11:20, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

In the Archcanon's Office can be found a note entitled On Moving Ebonheart, explaining the fact that a second settlement called Ebonheart appeared in Morrowind. (maymost notes talk about the game of morrowind in the past, rather than the lore of the future) -- SarthesArai ^Talk 19:20, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Nightblades ReferenceEdit

The lore book Response to Bero's Speech makes a passing reference to one of the key skills of the Nightblade, that of teleporting. Timeoin (talk) 10:19, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

This doesn't seem like a reference so much as an attempt to integrate some fairly obscure lore about nightblades. —Dillonn241 (talk) 05:45, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Molag Bal and Spirit of the DaedraEdit

One of his lines at anchors is "Sometimes the prey turns and nips us. It's a small thing."

Spirit of the Daedra, first introduced in Battlespire, has the line "Sometimes the prey turns upon us and bites. It is a small thing."

Obvious reference to me. —Dillonn241 (talk) 05:45, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

And another from the same book: "When oath-bonds are weak, there is pain, and shame, and darkness." Timeoin (talk) 08:03, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Aaand another: "They serve by choice. They serve the strong. They serve me." Timeoin (talk) 08:10, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Sometimes we admire our prey, and secretly cheer when it eludes our snares. Timeoin (talk) 08:25, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Destroy the body, and the animus is cast into the darkness. But the animus returns Timeoin (talk) 08:25, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

"Like all worldly things, you will in time wear and be used up." Timeoin (talk) 08:25, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

ApplewatchEdit

Applewatch has three residents, two of which are of the Draconis family. This would seem to be referencing Oblivion, where Perennia Draconis could be found at the farm of Applewatch.Timeoin (talk) 07:35, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

An obvious reference. —Dillonn241 (talk) 07:58, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Anvil LighthouseEdit

Anvil Lighthouse appears in Dark Brotherhood. Like in Oblivion, it is involved in some murders by high-ranking members of the Dark Brotherhood. Timeoin (talk) 07:39, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

While I'm inclined to say the whole DLC is a nod to Oblivion and its Dark Brotherhood questline, we have to be more specific than that so this is a good one. To be clear, the reference is not that the lighthouse reappears (which is to be expected), but that it has the murders associated with it. —Dillonn241 (talk) 07:58, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Black Dart GangEdit

A subtle reference to Tribunal, maybe? Timeoin (talk) 07:10, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

I agree that it's worth mentioning both incarnations as possibly being in reference to each other. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 14:53, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

I've added it to their lore page, but was wondering if its worth mentioning as a reference to earlier games. (I've been throwing a few ones here as I come across them/remember them). Timeoin (talk) 19:15, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Mind SpidersEdit

Are these a reference to the Mind Control spiders from Dragonborn? Timeoin (talk) 17:12, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Possibly. In what context do Mind Spiders appear in ESO? -- SarthesArai ^Talk 19:33, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

In Bal Fell. They're definitely the same spiders, since I think Lady Laurent even makes reference to going to Solstheim after that quest. —Legoless (talk) 21:42, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Its absolutely a reference to Dragonborn. A 4th Era Dunmer discovered albino spiders in White Ridge Barrow on Solstheim were magical and could be modified with alchemy: Dragonborn:Servos' Journal. In ESO, we are led to believe the same species of spider are also found in Bel Fell, because some cultists were doing similar academical experiments on spiders and creating mind control spider scrolls. Lady Laurent then confirms it with: "I know a scribe who lives near White Ridge Barrow in Skyrim. His fascination with spiders borders on obsession, but I'm sure he'll appreciate the scrolls.". Odd that she says "Skyrim" and not "Solstheim", but you get the point. --Jimeee (talk) 10:08, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Solstheim was part of Skyrim back then. With all these points, definetly a reference. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 12:56, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

There is actually no real info available on Solstheim's political status pre-Imperial colonisation; in fact, that specific quote is one of the few sources we have on the subject. —Legoless (talk) 19:38, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Kvatch Arena AnnouncerEdit

While playing Oblivion recently, I noticed a very strong similarity between the voice of the Kvatch Arena announcer and that of the Imperial City Arena. In fact, the IC Arena announcer even begins each round with the phrase, “Good people of the Imperial City...”, which if memory serves is similar to the Kvatch Arena. This seems like a solid historical reference to me. --Xyzzy ^Talk 07:40, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

The announcer in ESO is a different voice actor and I don't see any real shared lines of dialogue. An arena having an announcer narrate the action is less of a specific reference to TES4 than it is a fairly unremarkable trope. Contrast this with the Chaos Arena Announcer in Legends, which is a definite throwback to Wes Johnson's performance in TES4. —Legoless (talk) 22:03, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Dragonborn:Servos RendasEdit

In the quest A Web of Lies, Lady Laurent claims that she is going to give these scrolls related to a (male) spider obsessed scholar who lives in White Ridge Barrow. This clearly is an easter egg related to the research the Rendas siblings have done. In fact on the White Ridge Barrow page this reference is mentioned in the note section.

I propose to add a note for Servos Rendas to mention this easter egg. I added this to the note section, but I was told to discuss it here to see if we think it should belong --Dyetrek (talk) 02:24, 21 December 2019 (GMT)

BlackcastersEdit

I added the Blackcaster Mages Guild of Elinhir to the note about Arena gladiator names without discussion since it's been listed elsewhere for a while now. It's also pretty indisputable as a reference. —Legoless (talk) 15:19, 14 March 2020 (GMT)

PackratEdit

The Online:Mournhold Packrat is a reference to the Tribunal:Pack Rat purchased in Mournhold (as already noted on its own section) The Rim of the Sky (talk) 20:11, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Should be fine to add this. —⁠Legoless (talk) 10:53, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Jewelry Crafting Survey: AuridonEdit

Jewelry Crafting Survey: Auridon contains a reference to the idle dialogue of Oblivion NPCs on mudcrabs. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 21:22, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

I didn't know surveys even had text associated with them. An obvious reference. —⁠Legoless (talk) 10:53, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

A Good DeathEdit

The Mercenary Veteran random encounter is a reference to an encounter with an Old Orc in Skyrim, with both asking for you to give them "a good death". Another similar encounter also occurs with Umbra in Morrowind. --Oriwa ^Talk 06:07, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Knee JokesEdit

Bruccius Baenius can say, "So, how went the hunt? Wish I could've joined you, but between my back and my knees, I can barely make it to the tavern some days. Oh, and no knee jokes, yeah?", which seems like another reference to the arrow-in-the-knee trope from Skyrim. While it's admittedly not the strongest connection (no mention of arrows for example), I can't think of any other reason why the developers would insert that last sentence there. --Oriwa ^Talk 08:14, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

A Way Out Prison EscapeEdit

This note, A Way Out, describes the route the player character in Oblivion takes to exit the prison at the beginning of the game. Clearly the wall was rebuilt/converted to an actual secret passage at some point after this note was written, but I think it's clearly a reference to the opening moments of Oblivion. Jeancey (talk) 18:33, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

LydiaEdit

The launcher blurb for the storage pet currently reads "New Inventory Pet - Let the Explorer's Pack Donkey help carry your burdens" is a reference to Lydia's famous line "I am sworn to carry your burdens." when trading items to store. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 17:51, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

This is a plain as day reference, definitely needs to be added. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 18:20, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Boethiah's Quest in MorrowindEdit

In ART OF SMASHING VOL.1, the Orc author Urbek talks about how to smash things and suggests starting out by smashing rocks. In the last paragraph, he talks about moving on to the next stage, and includes the following:

URBEK THINK YOU MAY BE TEMPTED TO KEEP SMASHING STONE, MAYBE MAKE STATUE. URBEK NOT WANT TO DISCOURAGE READER FROM PURSUING PASSION, BUT MAKING PRETTY THING FROM STONE TAKE MASTERY OF GENTLE-SMASHING.

When I read this, I instantly thought of the Orc sculptor in Morrowind who you can recruit to recreate the statue of Boethiah at Khartag Point for Boethiah's Quest. Thoughts? Comments? Agree? Disagree?
— Wolfborn^(Howl) 05:13, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I can see it. These are the only two Orcs in the series that talk like this too as far as I'm aware. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 06:34, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Yagrum BagarnEdit

I've found two references so far:

• In Meet the Character - Sun-in-Shadow, Therana writes Saduro does nothing but tinker away in Magister Otheri's laboratory, like some blight-faced, maladjusted Dwarf.
• Barilzar says Good help is as rare as the legendary Last Dwemer, but a clockwork is only as strong as its weakest cog.

There might also be more. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 06:19, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

These are clear references. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 03:19, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

I've added an entry for this. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:20, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Grisly GourmetEdit

The Grisly Gourmet set is a reference to the Grisly Gourmet card from Legends. In the card art the baker is holding a tray with a sweetroll, and the set's effect causes a sweetroll to appear. As far as I've been able to find, the Grisly Gourmet term also originated from Legends. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 02:47, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. I've made the addition. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:16, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Sancre Tor ParagonEdit

The Sancre Tor Sentry Style is based off concept art of a Colovian from Sancre Tor from the Pocket Guide. The helmet directly translates the diamond headband from the art into the outfit style, and also includes a pointed ridge at the top and the same visage for the face. ESO in general seems to be making more and more armor from old concept art lately. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 02:21, 23 August 2023 (UTC)