Lore talk:Talos Cult

Oblivion ?Edit

Isn't the Talos cult somehow present in Oblivion too ? If i don't recall wrong, doesn't Oblivion:Jauffre tell the player that many elderly blades lay down arms to join the talos cult, in specific, Oblivion:Weynon Priory which is a place of Talos Worship ? --Hlaalu66 (talk) 17:19, 30 December 2013 (GMT)

There's a small difference between "worshipping Talos" and "being in the Talos Cult". The Talos Cult tries to "assassinate whoever the current emperor may be and replace him", which is the opposite of the blade's duty (to protect the emperor). The actual Talos Cult more a political movement than a religious group. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 17:52, 30 December 2013 (GMT)

The monks at Weynon Priory are of the Order of Talos, not the Talos Cult. It's just a religious order with ties to the Blades. —Legoless (talk) 23:53, 30 December 2013 (GMT)

Well then. thank you for clearing that up. Much appreciated. — Unsigned comment by Hlaalu66 (talk • contribs) at 17:24 on 5 January 2014

Talos Cult ConspiracyEdit

I feel like the Talos Cult is being misrepresented by the article, as a shadowy cabal which solely exists to put a strong emperor on the throne. Due to the limited information we have on them though, I can see why.

From General Darius's dialogue: "They are a group that reveres Tiber Septim. It is not the group as a whole with whom I am concerned. It is rumors of a conspiracy within the membership that interests me."

From other NPC's dialogue: "They have some fringe members in the Legion. Talk to the troopers here in town. They're not telling everything they know." I think this clearly says that it is not the entire cult wanting the demise of Uriel Septim.

And generic dialogue from Legion members: "Don't know much about them, actually. I know they revere Tiber Septim, but there's nothing wrong with that. Not really of too much interest to me, though. They have many followers in the Legions."

I don't think they would have many followers if their sole goal was killing the emperor and replacing him. It's called a conspiracy, after all. And the oath mentioned in the note is probably for the conspirators, not the cult itself. Also I don't think they would need to recruit more, as mentioned in the note, if they have a strong following in the Legion already.

And the dialogue of Darius at the end of the quest: "You have ruined their treasonous plans, but now I wonder... If we cannot trust the Talos Cult, who can we trust?" Clearly implying the Talos Cult was a trusted and reputable organization.

I think the Talos Cult is just that: a section of the Imperial Cult, dedicated to the glory of Tiber Septim. The fringe radicals of the group then formed a conspiracy to depose Uriel, due to his weak rule, which they feel is an affront to his legacy. As the generic dialogue of a Talos Cult member: "We are those who worship the true following of the Legions. Protecting the Glory of Tiber Septim, Talos, the Dragonborn." — Unsigned comment by 152.32.104.156 (talk) at 15:20 on 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the research on this, I've edited the page with these corrections. However, it's incorrect to say that they weren't actively recruiting new members to the cult as well as the conspiracy, since that's how the player gains access during the quest - see Arius Rulician's dialogue. It does seem like the entire cult was in on it, at least in Gnisis. —⁠Legoless (talk) 17:19, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Red TemplarsEdit

• Through infomining, it can be ascertained that the Talos Cult presented in Morrowind were originally a slightly different group called the Red Templars, who were originated in some RuneQuest campaigns set in Tamriel during Morrowind's early development, ran by Michael Kirkbride. Kirkbride credits Sun Dome Templars of RuneQuest as inspiration. The Red Templars themselves were a cult of psycho-crusaders within the Imperial Legion who "drank the blood of Talos to get short-term martial shouting powers." The rest of the Legion and Elder Council hated the Red Templars, and so they were shoved off to places like Morrowind. The Templars were supposedly tied into the chain of command within the Legion, but in truth, the Templars didn't take orders from anyone but themselves. There was an idea thrown out there during a forum roleplay that the Templars maintained a system of "Blood Dome Temples" across Tamriel, with each Temple being lead by a "Head Red." One such Temple was in Balmora. During the actual development of Morrowind, the Red Templars concept became the Templars of the Sons of Talos, before inferably being written into the Talos Cult. The armor made for the Templars was eventually retooled for use across the entire Legion, and yet the armor is still referred to as Imperial Templar Armor, mainly used by higher ups within the Legion -- and no context is provided on what wearing Templar Armor denotes within the Imperial Legion.

• 

  Templar of the Sons of Talos or Templar of the Imperial Legion
  (Morrowind Concept Art)

• 

  Templar Helmet of the Cult of Talos
  (Morrowind Concept Art)

• 

  Templar in Vivec City
  (Morrowind Concept Art)

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  Templar in Vivec City
  (Morrowind Pre-Release)

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  Templar Armor Chest Texture
  (Morrowind Pre-Release)

• 

  Templar in Pelagiad
  (Morrowind Pre-Release)

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  Imperial Templar Armor
  (Morrowind)

• 

  Captain Sellus Gravius in Imperial Templar Armor
  (Morrowind)

• 

  General Darius in Imperial Templar Armor
  (Morrowind)

---

I have removed the above note and gallery from the page as it only tangentially relates to the topic of this article. This information belongs at Morrowind:Cut Content or the like. It's good archival work but it's not relevant to the Talos Cult as it exists in the final game. —⁠Legoless (talk) 23:48, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

It should definitely be noted in some way as we often write about design concepts in the notes, which also helps give clarity on what happened to certain ideas, but the note can be trimmed down a lot from how long it was before to just the key information. A cut content page would be very useful. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 05:28, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

I disagree with removing it completely from the notes, as we do have Sutch as cut content in Oblivion noted in its lore page.Zebendal (talk) 05:41, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

The problem is that this Red Templars group has nothing to do with the faction that actually appears in Morrowind. It includes far too much real-world developer information on what "could have been" and has very little to do with lore. I would suggest adding a small note directing readers to a section on the cut content page if they would like to learn more. —⁠Legoless (talk) 08:57, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Agreed with the above comments, which mostly seem to support this going in the same way. Leave a shortened note here, with it directing to the page where this information will actually be stored. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 09:35, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

(←) I've created Morrowind:Cut Content and deleted the redirect pointing here. —⁠Legoless (talk) 11:29, 12 July 2023 (UTC)