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Lore talk:Leyawiin

AnnexationEdit

Hasn't there been talk in-game by various inhabitants of the city that Leyawiin used to be a primarily Khajiit city that was part of Elsweyr, but later annexed into Cyrodiil, much to the shame of many Khajiit inhabitants? How come this article makes no mention of this? 69.92.183.195 21:02, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Because nobody has added it. This is a wiki. If you have a contribution to make, make it. rpeh •TCE 22:47, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I edited this in. The information has been sitting there since Oblivion so better now than never. If I got something wrong please edit it.
122.106.167.153 21:54, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
The land ceded in the annex is never explicitly stated as Leyawiin. In addition, there is no source cited for the claim that Leyawiin was a Khajiit city. Based off of a Guide to Leyawiin, it is likely the land to the west of the Green Road on the border of Elsweyr. I will edit this to be more nonspecific until a source can be provided one way or the other. 1shoedpunk (talk) 20:46, 17 August 2013 (GMT)
I think this article may have been confusing Leyawiin with the Arena city of Alabaster. —Legoless (talk) 21:59, 17 August 2013 (GMT)
Yes, I agree. There was a fan theory to that regard floated in 2011 prior to Skyrim's release that appears to have been adopted to a degree. But, map comparison to between the all-Tamriel maps from both the 4th Era and the time of Arena show that the speculation was unfounded due to the inaccuracies between the maps. In addition, Leyawiin is referenced in Knights of the Nine as a human settlement at the time of the Merethic Era and Alabaster was referenced by the Night Mother in Oblivion as being a contemporary (3rd Era) Khajiit city. 1shoedpunk (talk) 19:01, 27 August 2013 (GMT)

Different names.Edit

Are Leyawiin and Alabaster different names of the same city? I mean it used to belong to Elsweyr. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:Arena-Map.jpg In addition, Alabaster is not present on the new map of Tamriel: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:TamrielMap.jpg — Unsigned comment by 198.168.48.157 (talk) at 15:31 on 17 June 2011

Although that's sound logic, Alabaster was still in existence during Oblivion, as the Night Mother mentions it during Whispers of Death. Remember that on Arena's map the "Imperial Province" was very underdeveloped. Alabaster was probably removed from the maps because of its supposed proximity to Leyawiin, but it certainly has't been taken over by Cyrodiil or retconned out of lore (yet). --Legoless 14:55, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
(e/c) Probably not, given that the city also gets a mention in Oblivion - see Whispers of Death. I always thought Alabaster was just on the Elsweyr side of the border while Leyawiin was just on the Cyrodiil side, although I don't think there's any direct evidence for that. Note that the Arena map doesn't include Anvil, Chorrol, Bruma, Cheydinhal, Bravil, Skingrad, or any of the cities of Vvardenfell either. rpeh •TCE 14:56, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Removing Game ContentEdit

I've removed the Oblivion information found on the page because I believe that it should be on the OB page. But I want to make sure that a consensus can be reached here. Instead of copying and pasting like I have been, I'll simply let readers look at the edit history (so as to avoid having a ton of sections in the TOC). If we decide to keep it, I'll undo the edit in question. If not, then... well, it's pretty self-explanatory. Thanks.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 07:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Elsweyr taking control of blackwood during time of ESO, 582, needs verification...Edit

...so I edited it out. Someone give me proof that the parts of Cyrodiil we don't see on the pvp-cropped map are actually part of the nations warring after them--that they won't become pvp zones in the future. Animperiallich (talk) 14:05, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

It's based on reverse-inference from PGE3:
Elsweyr's overall territory, however, has not increased, due to a border arrangement which was not in that nation's favor. In the east, the long disputed border with the Cyrodilic County Leyawiin was recently resolved in Cyrodiil's favor, after an agreement between the current Mane and the Count of Leyawiin.
If the West Niben was ceded by the Mane to Cyrodiil, then some time prior to that, Elsweyr must have been in control of it. Since there was a battle there between Leovic's forces and Sai Sahan in the 570s, it stands to reason that it must be "some time after 2E 582" that the land was controlled by Elsweyr, so there's nothing wrong with that part of the sentence. I don't remember Leyawiin specifically being mentioned as at one time being in Elsweyr, but I can't remember all the Renrijra Krin info from Oblivion. So Elsweyr definitely had control of the Trans-Niben, but whether they had Leyawiin as well (and whether it became a Khajiit city) does need further investigation. --Enodoc (talk) 14:26, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
The same quote says that the land was disputed between Elsweyr and the Cyrodilic County Leyawiin, which was disputed in favor of Count of Leyawiin. That suggests that even before the Mane ceded the disputed land to Cyrodiil, there was a County Leyawiin in Cyrodiil, and it had its Count. That would mean that the city itself wasn't taken by the Khajiit, and I'd feel safer without that bit in the article. But Elsweyr definitely used be in control over a part of Blackwood, and that info should stay. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 15:10, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) "It's a pretty town, and everyone is really friendly, except maybe some Khajiit and Argonians who are upset about the Trans-Niben. I think it's a shame how they took that land from Elsweyr, and Argonians are afraid it could happen to them, too." "Leyawiin is in a state of transition. It has long been a respected county making moderate cultural and economic contributions to the Empire. However, Leyawiin must move towards the mainstream of Imperial culture, both in trade and in political affairs." "Leyawiin has always been a melting pot of races and cultures. Of course, racial and cultural conflicts produce inefficiencies and confusion... I fear Lady Leyawiin and Hlidara Mothril plan to push the minorities aside and establish a bland, Imperial-dominated culture here in Leyawiin." "I have been happy enough in the Count's service. But I am not so happy about his lovely wife, and her Nibenean advisor. Lady Alessia is uncomfortable with Khajiit ways. And Argonian ways. And Dunmer ways. She is only comfortable with pure white-bread Nibeneans." "So many greenskins here... they smell, do they not? Ahdarji won't drink the water, no. The Argonians SWIM in it." "We need some law-and-order... bring in the Legions. 'Leyawiin for the Imperials,' I say. No sense coddling those Renrijra Krin bandits." "Well, I don't know much about politics, but I think Lady Alessia's right. We've got to put a stop to all these bandits and rabble in the Trans-Niben. I know the Khajiit are all upset that the Council took away their land and gave it to us, but they just have to get over it! It's our land, now." "Well, if you want to know what I think, I think it stinks. The Elder Council takes the Trans-Niben and just gives it to Cyrodiil! Have you ever seen a map with the Trans-Niben in Cyrodiil? No! Because there's never been one like that. Damn crooked Councilor. Some men rob you with a sword; others rob you with a goose quill pen." "Leyawiin stands alone. That's what Count Caro says. Only our brave Guardsmen to keep the hordes of Oblivion at bay."
Apologies for the wall of text, but that's most of the important dialogue from Oblivion. It's clear that the Trans-Niben was given to County Leyawiin from Elsweyr a few generations before the time of Oblivion, so that shouldn't be in question here. What isn't so clear is the status of Leyawiin itself - is it considered part of the Trans-Niben? The line about no historical precedent for the annexation ("no maps") certainly makes it sound unlikely, but I have a feeling the ESO lore has retconned that. The Khajiit in Leyawiin are clearly not happy with the influx of Argonians and the Imperialisation of the city, which strongly implies that the city was not Nibenean in culture before the annexation. We know that Leyawiin was founded as a Nedic settlement and that it was part of the Empire before (and possibly even during) the events of ESO, so why would it not be fully Imperial? Why was Marius Caro making such a concerted effort to create closer ties to the rest of Cyrodiil? If Leyawiin wasn't officially part of Elsweyr, it certainly had a strong Khajiiti culture prior to the annexation; I think that's a fair assumption to make given the weight of the evidence in dialogue. —Legoless (talk) 15:16, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
I changed the wording to reflect that only land within County Leyawiin along the Trans-Niben was ceded. As noted above, the idea that Leyawiin was ever a city in Elsweyr is a fan creation. It came from a writer named The Old Ye Bard in approximately 2010 or 2011. It is not derived directly from an in-game text or other official source and so it should not be considered a referenceable primary source.
1shoedpunk (talk) 07:22, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
Return to "Leyawiin" page.