Lore talk:Hircine

Friends and enemiesEdit

I would like to know... some of the Daedric Princes has their friends among the other Princes, as well as enemies. How about Hircine's friends and enemies? - ZuTheSkunk 10:15, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

This has been noted in the first section of the page, specifically the last paragraph before the aspects section.Zebendal (talk) 06:39, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Herne is not Celtic.Edit

The legend goes that Herne was Edward the 2nd's (late 1300s) hunt leader, and committed suicide in Windsor Forest after having his hunting ability magically taken from him to save his life, and haunts the forest ever since. He is very closely linked with Cernunnos by neopagan types, and the imagery in the legend does lend itself to such a link, but Herne's actual origins are strictly medieval and anglo/norman. (I fixed it) - Mejoff 29/09/2010

Moved note.Edit

• Hircine is very similar to two figures in British mythology -- Cernunnos, the Celtic god of the hunt, and Herne, a medieval huntsman whose ghost is said to haunt Windsor Forest in Buckinghamshire. Both are portrayed as having antlers upon their heads and are strongly associated with wildlife and the hunt.

I know this seems correct , but I have always thought that we take all of this stuff off of the pages.... JackTurbo95 07:19, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Hircine's a god of hunting - of course there will be some real-world similaries, but they don't need to be mentioned on the page unless an obvious easter egg. Legoless 11:33, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Maybe it was an Easter egg we know that there are already loads of Easter eggs in the game already — Unsigned comment by Gef21 (talk • contribs) at 14:04 on January 3, 2012

Irrelevant, we don't make references to the real world on lore page unless it's absolutely necessary. Minor Edits 06:44, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't think there are any Easter eggs relating to Hircine's name. The word hircine means of a goat, or goat-like so it's probably just refering to his appearance. — Unsigned comment by 94.168.24.195 (talk) on 20 March 2012

Some of his lesser daedra are called Hernes though, this seems like an easter egg to me.

BloodmoonEdit

Should the items received from the various versions of hircine at the end of his hunt be attributed to him on his page? Chronic 21:36, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

That's game-specific information. Normally the Lore articles avoid listing anything that is particular to a single Elder Scrolls game, otherwise in the case of Daedric Princes and other characters that appear in a lot of the games they would become very large in a hurry. --Morrolan (talk) 13:53, 7 April 2013 (GMT)

For context, they are talking about Spear of the Hunter, and the Hunter's Amulet of Strength and Speed. Hircine has been depicted with this spear for several games, so I added it as an artifact. The amulets themselves are mentioned in the note section of the page.Zebendal (talk) 06:39, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

TotemsEdit

Since stuff like the Spear of Bitter Mercy and the Savior's Hide are mentioned, wouldn't it make sense to mention the Totems on this page? — Unsigned comment by 174.52.67.60 (talk) on 28 April 2012

They have been listed in the artifacts section.Zebendal (talk) 06:39, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Ill Met by MoonlightEdit

The cursed ring didn't make Sinding change at random, it stopped him from changing at all. But he still had the desire to hunt. He killed the little girl in human form. 173.73.159.61 22:44, 29 November 2012 (GMT)

His dialogue during the quest says otherwise. Not to mention the fact that the curse that the player obtains causes random transformation.--Br3admax (talk) 22:51, 29 November 2012 (GMT)

Stag Prince?Edit

In Skyrim there's a bow enchanted with the Blessing of the Stag Prince. Given that bows were largely used for hunting even before they were used as weapons, can we assume that the blessing refers to Hircine, given how he's the god of the hunt?--87.255.89.160 19:32, 17 March 2020 (GMT)

The implication has been put in the note section.Zebendal (talk) 06:39, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Inclusion of Bloodmoon's Hircine's Aspects in the Five AspectsEdit

In Morrowind's Bloodmoon expansion, we have three aspects of Hircine that appear which are the Aspect of Strength, the Aspect of Guile, and the Aspect of Speed. The inclusion of the book Aspects of Lord Hircine in ESO tells us that Hircine has ONLY 5 aspects, and these 3 fit some of the described aspects.

Bloodmoon's Aspect of Strength fits Hrokkibeg the Mighty Bear's description. "He embodies the Totem of Claw and Fang, and comes here seeking solitude, peace from labors, and renewal of the Burning Spirit Within. Beware, for if you rouse him and disturb his serenity you will be torn asunder. But if you approach him with deference and an offering of honey-sweet mead, he may grant you the power of the Bear-Heart in your next fight." You see that Hrokkibeg's title is literally Mighty Bear, he signifies might and he is literally a bear like the aspect of strength is.

Bloodmoon's Aspect of Speed fits the description of Storihbeg the Man Beast/ the Skinchanger / Wolf Aspect of Hircine. He is literally a wolf aspect just like the Aspect of Speed is. "He comes here to hunt with his children the Skinshifters, or to adopt new children and turn them pelt-side-out..." During the end of bloodmoon, we see Hircine bring his hounds to Nirn to hunt and these hounds can infect the nerevarine, who then becomes a servant of hircine should they not cure themselves. We then see Storihbeg if we choose to fight the aspect of speed.

Bloodmoon's Aspect of Guile is trickier, but it is likely intended to be Albarag the Hunter "He bears the Spear of Bitter Mercy." The Spear of Bitter Mercy is not in Hircine's possession during Morrowind as Sheogorath had the Spear of Bitter Mercy. The Aspect of Guile however had the Spear of the Hunter, another spear associated with Hircine.

"He comes here from the Hunting Grounds to hunt new prey... If he brings not prey, then woe betide you who meet him, for he may dub you the Hare. Then you must flee as best you can, though you will not escape." He literally comes to hunt on Solstheim to conduct a Great Hunt to hunt us. He also kidnaps people to act as hares in the hunt. You also go through a maze while fleeing/fighting werewolves to escape or win the great Hunt.

Additional evidence is in the Bloodforge Style, which is a style in honor of Alrabeg the Hunter, and the Helmet is antlered much like the Aspect of Guile.Zebendal (talk) 04:36, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Sounds like a solid connection. —⁠Legoless (talk) 10:51, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

I think its quite clear that all the aspects listed are synonymous with Storihbeg, Hrokkibeg etc. as they take the same animal forms and are, well, all aspects of Hircine, and the reason they weren't called those names in Bloodmoon was just due to a decision to retroactively call them that later on. So it is definitely connected and not coincidental. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 19:03, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Zeb is spot on here. Further proof that these aspects simply have to be synonymous with those mentioned above is the fact that the text specifies Hircine only has these 5 aspects, and none other. This will be nice because we will have images of all 5 aspects besides gulibeg. -dcking20 — Unsigned comment by dcking20 (talk • contribs) at 16:28 on 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Symbols of the Five AspectsEdit

Discussion moved to Lore talk:Totems of Hircine#Symbols of the Five Aspects

Removal of ESO Werewolf QuestEdit

This recent revision removed the events of the Hircine's Gift quest from the page because we "shouldn't be positing that the Vestige did or did not become a werewolf". On the contrary, this is exactly what we do with all quests in lorespace; we assume that the events have taken place. I've reverted, as (a) it is entirely possible for the player character to become a werewolf and cure it as many times as you like, and (b) the wording on the page doesn't even mention the Vestige and is kept quite neutral.

It is important to note the multiplayer aspect of the cited lines of dialogue. Stating that "some individuals who were infected with lycanthropy ... were given greater mastery over their form" is accurate and noteworthy and can just as easily refer to other players as it can "the Vestige", since you are instructed to go and infect others if you do complete that quest. That lore info exists irrespective of whether the Vestige canonically completes that quest or not (but, again, we assume it does).

If there really is some question as to whether we shouldn't be assuming the Vestige completes this one particular quest, the info should be retained on the page in some other manner rather than deleted outright, as the form of player lycanthropy in ESO is very much notable from a lore perspective. That said, I don't see any reason we shouldn't be assuming the Vestige became a werewolf at some stage, any more than we assume the Last Dragonborn did; this isn't an either-or binary quest choice where we can't be sure of the outcome. —⁠Legoless (talk) 04:02, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree with you there. I changed the wording from a previous iteration which took a more one-sided stance on the Vestige-werewolf thing, and the ultimate removal was a last-minute decision made after I changed it up. -MolagBallet (talk) 04:06, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

I put a Vestige but not THE Vestige as Hircine's lines make explicit reference to their soullessness.

"You desire power, but have you the will? The God of Schemes has tasted your soul. You've come back tainted. Wrong. Hunt. Seek a tribute worthy of your pack. Bring it down, then howl for your brothers and sisters. If the pack accepts you, they will feed, and you will join them. Now, experience my power!"

The Vampire questline similarly has the same viewpoint:

"The Dark Father, Molag Bal, has corrupted you. Only Mother Lamae herself may turn you into one of us. Kneel before this monument, and pray she welcomes you into her embrace."

In these cases, do we mention a Vestige (not THE Vestige) at all? Zebendal (talk) 04:59, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

We can word it the same way its done on the vampire lore page when it comes to Soul Shriven and mention Hircine is the only known way a Soul Shriven can become a werewolf, as you do have to go to him to actually become one. Which means that the soulshriven otherwise can't become one without Hircine's Aid as the disease otherwise would turn you into one. But context it like Soul Shriven and not the Vestige the hero. Like we do with Blood Scions on the Vampire Page when it comes to the soul shriven. (TheVampKnight (talk) 06:19, 16 January 2021 (UTC))