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Lore talk:Daedric Alphabet

Deleted TextEdit

I've deleted this text added to the main page (in Other Examples, when discussing the Mages Guild seal):

(This is due to the fact that Restoration is not one of the major skills needed to advance in rank in games like Morrowind ~ Dunmer Scout)

Besides that fact that is signed (all contributions on articles, not talk pages, should not be signed), it's not clear to me that this is correct. Restoration is exactly like every other magical skill in Oblivion: if you choose it to be one of your major skills, then it does determine when you increase in level. I can't say that I fully know what this comment is trying to claim, but I'm quite sure that it doesn't give any explanation why Restoration is any less of a magical skill than the other five in Oblivion (which is the source of this particular seal). --Nephele 11:42, 7 January 2007 (EST)

No, what I believe he meant, was that Restoration was not one of the skills needed to advance in rank in the Mages Guild in TESIII. I can't recall what the skills for the MG were in TESIV, but my point remains.68.23.8.253 21:52, 3 June 2007 (EDT)
In Oblivion, there weren't any; you simply needed to complete the quests.--220.157.84.55 08:53, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
  • On an entirely different issue, I was unable to successfully install the Daedric font onto my Windows XP system. I located the TTF file under Windows/Fonts, but it does not appear in the font selection of any application. What else do I need to do, to actually add the font into my system? Is a reboot needed? If further steps are required, those must also be described in the installing instructions! Finally, when I print the page, the daedric (PNG) letters still print as black on black, ie. unreadable! --FMan 16:24, 7 January 2007 (EST)
Same problem here. Same OS and everything the computer dosen't recognize it its not anything you can do for all I know.--Corevette789 23:22, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Bible of the Deep OnesEdit

Yes, the Bible of the Deep Ones is displayed in game using Daedric lettering. Although the transliterated text (i.e., the text that can be accessed from the construction set) includes multiple X characters, all the X's are omitted in the displayed text.

"font face=4" is used to change text into Daedric. Searching through the Oblivion texts, the other cases I can find (excluding test books) are:

--Nephele 00:34, 1 March 2007 (EST)

Daedric on wordEdit

IS there any way to get daedric on word, i would just think it would be cool

Yes. Download the font from the main page and install it. A font called Daedric will then be available on any application that allows you to pick a typeface, including Word. --RpehTalk 07:59, 6 October 2007 (EDT)
is there a mac version of this when i click on it it dissapears Agente00cuyo 20:24, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I can also say that i'm experiencing this problem as well. It's showing up, but an image of it is extraordinarily thin, and only displays the bottom. Does anyone have a fix for this?

Calligraphic PerspectiveEdit

Given the large number of quills, ink bottles and parchment found in Oblivion, I'm willing to hazard a guess that those are the things they use to write the Daedric alphabet. Using similar flat nibbed pens, ink and paper and having some experience in calligraphy, one can reasonably conclude the following.

1. The alphabet is one in which the letters are formed by strokes being hung down from a thin horizontal stroke or base line. The alphabet is in that respect the opposite of the Roman one in which letters rest on a floor and are built upwards.

2. The major hanging strokes can be hung at the beginning, middle or end of the base line which is scribed from left to right.

3. There are three major hanging strokes: straight, "D" curved, and "C" curved.

4. As with any alphabet, as it is written more quickly, certain letters can be less well formed and confusion can arise. This accounts for the dot in the form for the letter "U" to distinguish it from the form for the letter "B". Likewise, for the dot in the form for the letter "O" to distinguish it from the form for the letter "V".

5. Daedric appears to have no minuscules (lower case) or ligatures.

6. The letters containing the "D" curve hung from the end of the base line include the forms for the letters "D", "G", "K", "M", "O", "U", "V" and "W".

7. The letters containing the "D" curve hung from the beginning of the base line include the forms for the letters "B", "H", "N" and "L".

8. Only the letters "A" and "K" demonstrate the "C" curve hung from the beginning of the base line.

9. The letters with the "C" curve hung from the end of the base line might also be referred to as having a form not unlike the numeral "7". They include the forms for "F", "P", "R" and "Q" with that for "R" being slightly tilted rightward.

10. The letters with the straight down stroke hung from the beginning of the base line include the forms for "M", "C", "D" and "J".

11. Finally, there are (as in all alphabets) those more difficult to categorize. The forms for "Z", "E", "S", "T" and "Y". The form for "T" is the only one that demonstrates a reflex ascending stroke above the base line while the form for "W" has the base line terminated by a short down stroke that also ascends above the base line. The forms for "T" and "Y" are the only ones with an independent terminating stroke at the bottom as opposed to the serifs in the forms for "L" and "J".

This analysis leads one to the conclusion that perhaps the best form the the letter Xayah would consist of the base line with a "D" curve hung at the beginning and a "C" curve hung at the end, which is just the reverse order of the letter form for "V" and would approximate a curvy "X" with the base line acting as a cap.

Morrowind boxEdit

The blocks of runes on the Morrowind box are the names of the 6 Great Houses. They are (clockwise from top): Dres, Indoril, Telvanni (shortened to Telvan), Dagoth, Hlaalu, and Redoran. The runes on the Bonemold armor read: [unknown]oh. The first symbol, I couldn't find in the translator or anywhere. That should probably be added to the article. Maximus Bane83 12:22, 27 December 2007 (EST)

PHONEMES pleaseEdit

I understand that this alphabet is simply a calligraphic alternative to the Latin alphabet (either French, Germanic, Italian or Spanish - note: English is a Germanic language): it would be very hard for Bethesda to "invent" a new language, as hiring gurus like Tolkien or Chomsky would have not been very cost effective. However, I was wondering if it would be possible to associate phonemes, so that a word would sound like another language although it is actually in English. My need for this: English to Daedra alphabet to phonemes to English alphabet, so that I could make some Daedra texts, references, even dialogs that would be pronounced and/or read using an English alphabet. I know that this can feasible, but does it exists? --HawkFest 01:11, 29 February 2008 (EST)

  • Not to mention that Tolkien had been dead for years by the time Morrowind came about. --  Adorlin  ►  08:32, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
As it was said in The Imperial Library, the writings in this script should be pronounced as if the letters were Latin and the writing was in English. For example, the word "Doht-Oht-Geth" means "dog" and not "dohtohtgeht". However, since I often do what I'm said not to, I created a program a while ago that encodes text in that exactly fashion, producing something like 'daedra writing'. It's available on TESNexus. Hope you have fun.
Arilita 10:18, 13 March 2008 (EDT)


Arilita is right --- all alphabets have regular names for the letters, like "kay" for K, but nobody says "cee-ay-enn" if he means "can". This is historical from the runic/cyrillic alphabets, where letters were named after special cultural or religious matters and had different meanings in different contexts. Eg, the nordic "Thorgal" rune (the modern anti-aids-campaign logo happens to look exactly like Thorgal) was also called "Thordal", "Ordal" or "Thysdal", with Thordal/Ordal being the name rune of Thor Odinsson Thunder-God, the others meaning different aspects of nordic life and spiritualism. The rune for the roman "m" was among others called "Mjolnir", after Thor's hammer.
Much more important, and also in the TES alphabet, is that some of the runes/letters mean a sequence of sounds, like the nordic "thingal" rune stands for "thg", "thn", or "th", but also "dh"/"bh", "dhn"/"bhn", and "dng", depending on the word or context it is used in. Don't forget that many alphabets do NOT have 26 letters, but only 14 or 58 --- where special by-notes exist or some runes are used similarly to the way of "v" in the roman writing (as "u", "v", and "w"). You should take a look at the "elven" alphabets from the LoTR appendices, they give about the general idea. Tolkien was a linguist, after all.
kuli 19:22, 26 November 2008 (EST)
Err... I think you guys are missing the point. HawkFest is not asking if one should say the names of the letters when reading; he's asking how the letters should be pronounced. Saying "as in Latin" really means nothing. Many of the letters in this alphabet were not present in Latin, and, when reading Latin, most people just pronounce it as if it were their native language. For example, we pronounce Cicero as /ˈsɪsəɹəʊ/, whereas the correct Latin pronunciation is /ˈkikeroː/. So the question still stands. What are the phonemes? Is Jeb pronounced /dʒ/ (as in English), /x/ as in Latin American Spanish, or /j/ (as in French)? The letter didn't exist in Latin; /dʒ/ and /x/ were not present as phonemes, and /j/ was represented by the letter I. Really, Bethesda should have done some elementary research into languages before making a one-to-one English-to-Daedric orthography.
Squatting Monk 2:12, 26 February 2009 (CST)
I'm afraid it's you who has missed the point of Arilita's response. He talks about Latin letters. The Latin Alphabet is what our letters are always called although you are, of course, right about some letters not being used in Latin itself. The important part is "writings... should be pronounced as if the... writing was in English". –RpehTCE 03:36, 26 February 2009 (EST)

YahkemEdit

If you read the article it soundl like the letter Yahkem is accidently ingame on the Tel Fyr banner, but if you look at the banners in Vivec (those hanging under the bridges between the districts) you'll find plenty of Yahkems there (eg. in you). I think this should be mentioned in the article. --91.66.137.60 10:25, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Gallery of examplesEdit

I have a picture of the "Wellcome sign" outside balmora, written with Daedric letters, could someone give me some info about what they think and, maybe a little help with the upploading part:

1. how do I get a picture to a picture page?

2. On my computer I can't use (:) in the pictures original name, is that a bad thing when uploading a picture, or is that fixed when the picture is added to the pages? -Goblin lair 12:00, 16 August 2008

wait... I figured it out. -Goblin lair 10:21, 17 August 2008

XEdit

The letter Xayah has yet to be spotted in any game, although it is believed to look like the letter shown in the above table. How do you know what it looks like if it doesn't appear anywhere?--Veloth 21:51, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

Guys I have found "Xayah" letter in the game. Look on last symbol at this pic. It's a tx_w_battleaxe_daedric.dds NmLs 05:33, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

That's a good spot! It surely looks like the Daedric letter presented here. Although official stance on this there is no official Xayah, some mention on the appearance of the letter is good for the article. I can't recognize all the letters on the Battle Axe, but some can be identified (which should indicate it is indeed Daedric script). --Timenn-<talk> 09:57, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I can recognise all of these letters. They are E A C P H E Q X. Correct me if I wrong. NmLs 11:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I got an F instead of an A. But the X could very well be a U. Since they say it isn't an official letter, I am inclined to go against it. –Elliot talk 11:25, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

This cannot be U because there is no dot and right part not higher than left. Dot in the Yoodt is one of the main elements. Without dot this is not U. And you are right about F. I mistyped. NmLs 04:33, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Confirming Use of Daedric Runes on ClothesEdit

Daedric Runes are used on the light blue expensive robe that is usually worn by members of the Temple in Morrowind. (item code: expensive_robe_02) The yellow strands on that robe say: 'Faith is only law' (the Y is visible, the word 'is' is drawn together) and 'Learn by serving' (again, the Y is visible.) The Bethesda texture piece this may be found on is tx_c_robe_expensive_2_01.dds (in morrowind.bsa, or as tx_c_robe_expensive_2_01.bmp in the textures directory on your game disk.)


hth,

Cheers, Wulfgar


If you need to get back to me, find me at CanadianIce's forum.

88.217.117.224 08:00, 8 March 2009 (EDT)


English to Daedric?Edit

is there a translator on the internet that translates ENGLISH into DAEDRIC to one that is suggested on the page only translates daedric to english.. any help??--VergilSparda 23:35, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Download the Daedric font provided at the top of this article. Whatever you type in English then, will be automatically displayed in Daedric script. --Timenn-<talk> 14:31, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Installation in Debian Lenny (5)Edit

This is just tentative instruction: it's not complete yet as it doesn't yet cover a system-wide install, only a per-user install, and may involve duplicate steps. Due to the wide range of systems to enable TrueType on Unix-like systems, there is no One Universal Method.

  • For Debian GNU/Linux, and possibly others:
  1. Unzip the package using your preferred archiver.
  2. Copy all *.ttf files to ~/.fonts (mkdir it if it doesn't exist.)
  3. Restart X11 using your standard method. If you use GDM, XDM, or KDM, a simple logout will do such.

If you need to contact me on this, reply here, just call me '99' for short until I get registered.

I haven't posted it to the article yet, looking for more input specifically from Debian users. 99.37.35.54 16:15, 19 March 2010 (UTC) I'm signed up. I was called '99' for a brief moment. Blryans 16:19, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

An extremely minor pointEdit

But the letter Ayem (A) can also appear reversed, as seen in the banners and triangular corner signs in Vivec's Arena canton (Morrowind); for an example see here 60.224.19.124 10:43, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks - I've added a mirrored version to the table. rpeh •TCE 10:25, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
No problem - I must have looked at those signs a hundred times (I'm easily confused, they're almost exclusively how I manage to navigate Vivec) before it somehow caught my eye... 60.224.19.124 04:20, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
I believe this is actually the character geth (g) not a reversed ayem (a). 69.228.199.227 22:55, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
It's an A because the banner spells ARENA V. -- Jplatinum16 23:17, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Reference in MSPAEdit

I found daedric letters in the MS Paint Adventure "Homestuck". [1]Here is the link to the MSPA Wiki page on it and [2]here is the page with the first instance of it. Thanks, the IP 98.206.128.35 20:42, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Where do these names come from?Edit

All these letters have names (Xayah,Ayem,etc) but are these names mentioned in any game or by the developers,or just fanfiction names tacked on? — Unsigned comment by 94.172.122.156 (talk) at 13:21 on February 9, 2011

We don't use fanfiction on Lore pages. All information comes from either a game, or another reliable source, such as Bethesda. The reference on the page goes to Bethesda blog, which links to another site that doesn't work... Not sure exactly where it started. --DKong27 Talk Cont 19:46, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
They're mentioned on P51 of the Battlespire manual on a page called "Daedric alphabet transliteration". That was the first game to use the alphabet, and used the full names extensively. rpeh •TCE 19:56, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Font TroubleEdit

My MAC is having trouble installing the TTF in the linked file. I've had no troubles installing other TTFs, just this one. The font gets cut off, showing only the bottom tenth of each letter no matter how I instal it. Any recommendations for fixing this? — Unsigned comment by 64.56.91.45 (talk) at 18:53 on March 8, 2011

I can also confirm this is the only font that won't install correctly on my Mac. =( — Unsigned comment by D. Gemini (talkcontribs) at 13:04 on September 1, 2011
Same here, also on a Mac. It's completely illegible unfortunately...does anyone on a windows/linux computer have the same problem? --Kvaener 16:16, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Yahkem exclusion theory?Edit

So we know that the letter Y is intentionally excluded in the Daedric language most of the time, but other times it seems to be included. Some people seem to think that this is a mistake, but I have a theory that the inclusion or exclusion of Y depends on the soudns of the letter. You know how Y is a "sometimes vowel?" Well perhaps Y is excluded in consonant form (as in "Shadow Hide (Y)ou) but included in vowel form (as in Tel Fyr). I haven't looked into this much, but it's worth a look, I think. I have no thoughts as to what the rules for Xayah may be. Tea ache sea 17:30, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Interesting idea, but the direct quote from Matt Grandstaff would seem to rule that out. rpeh •TCE 07:03, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Numbers?Edit

What about the numbers? They don't exist in this alphabet? — Unsigned comment by 83.40.6.183 (talk) on 21 October 2011

Numbers don't exist in any alphabet - alphabets (named after Alpha, Beta - the first two letters in Greek) are only letters. Numbers in Daedric are spelled out in cases like this. rpeh •TCE 09:54, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Letters in Skyrim Rune spellsEdit

Having taken these three images now, I thought I'd look into what letters are actually used here. The runes use the following letters:

Fire Rune Frost Rune Lightning Rune Ash Rune Frenzy Rune Poison Rune
    M
 P     H
C   F   Q
 S     I
    TH
    M
 P     F
C   S   Q
 L     I
    TH
    M
 P     F
C   L   Q
 S     I
    TH
    M
 P     H
C   TH  Q
 S     I
    O
    M
 P     F
C   N   Q
 S     I
    TH
    M
 P     H
C   I   Q
 S     A
    TH

Note that most of the characters are the same in all three, but in the Fire Rune, the upper right character has changed from an 'F' to an 'H', presumably because the central character is an 'F' there. And in the case of the Frost Rune, the lower left is changed from an 'S' to an 'L' for the same reason. As for the central characters themselves, Fire and Lightning are obvious - 'F' and 'L' respectively. Not sure what the 'S' is for in the Frost Rune. "Slow" maybe? Just to be different from the 'F' which is already used by Fire? Anyhow, I figured I'd put this out there for people's perusal, and see if anybody has any ideas as to what the other letters might mean if anything... TheRealLurlock (talk) 03:18, 20 December 2012 (GMT)

I just added the three new runes added by Dragonborn for comparison. I also added underlines to the letters which deviate from the "default" in each position. Though that is now in question, as the 'H' which was the deviant letter on the Fire Rune now appears in two of the new ones, making it just as common as the 'F' in that position. Still no more insight into the meaning (if any) of these letters, and none of these are obvious like the 'F' and 'L' were for Fire and Lightning. Just thought I'd put this out there in case anyone was curious. TheRealLurlock (talk) 21:20, 11 February 2013 (GMT)

Two pages?Edit

Does anybody know why there are two pages of which one simply transcludes the other??? -- SarthesArai Talk 17:25, 24 May 2013 (GMT)

The notice at the top of this article explains why. "This page uses the Daedric Alphabet. If the text here does not display in the Daedric font, you can either download and install the Daedric font, or view the image version of the page." Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 00:28, 28 May 2013 (GMT)

Similarities to KlingonEdit

So I was watching an old Star Trek TNG episode today, and it was a Klingon-related episode, and I happened to spot a large decorative banner which very clearly had a Daedric letter 'Z' on it. I mean, like exactly. So I decided to look up the Klingon alphabet, and you know, there's actually a lot of similarities between the two fake languages. Obviously Klingon came first, but is it possible the artist who designed the Daedric font was in some way influenced by it? Here's a link for example. In particular, the Klingon 'R' looks a lot like the Daedric 'H' at an angle, and the Klingon 'NG' and 'O' both bear a strong resemblance to the Daedric 'S'. Also, the Klingon 'B' is a near mirror-image of the Daedric 'N', and other similarities can be found if you stretch a bit. Clearly it's not a complete rip-off - the other letters are not quite as close, and even the ones that are similar don't translate to the same sounds. But there does at least appear to be some stylistic influence going on here. Intermix any Daedric and Klingon characters and to anyone who isn't fluent in one or the other wouldn't be able to tell that they don't go together. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 02:39, 13 March 2014 (GMT)

Morrowind note - moved from articleEdit

"* The Morag Tong seal is a monogram consisting of many daedric letters."

The only image of the Morag Tong seal I could find on the wiki is this one, and the design doesn't look like Daedric letters to me. Thoughts? --Xyzzy Talk 14:06, 15 September 2014 (GMT)

Here I found K, N, V Z, U and W... at least. --Pakshee (talk) 07:49, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Dead LinkEdit

The reference link to Grandstaff just goes to bethesda.net — Unsigned comment by 73.57.179.208 (talk) at 03:47 on 28 November 2018

Thanks, I changed it to an archived link. —Dillonn241 (talk) 11:32, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

RunesEdit

just thought I should point out, most daedric cults have the daedric rune O for their symbol. eg, Mythic Dawn. it is quite obvious but if you didn't know the rune O is based on a daedric gate. it seems that specific rune is quite popular.

Morrowind Paper Lantern Daedric TextEdit

Doing some testing, I believe the paper lantern with Daedric text mentioned on this page is from a mod. Testing all of the paper lanterns we list did not show the one in question, and a prominent mod adds the text in question to paper lanterns. If I somehow missed a vanilla one with it, feel free to add it back. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 18:01, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

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