Lore talk:Alessia
RevisionsEdit
[1]This edit should probably be reverted. The opening paragraph should be succinct and comprehensive, material can be repeated in greater detail later in the article. Also, the tense is wrong and wikipedia would probably put a Sounds Like an Essay or similar tag on it right now.74.65.142.202 17:18, 22 January 2009 (EST)
A QuestionEdit
It says that; she was sainted by Shezarr (Lorkhan?) and in some stories Akatosh. But since Martin Septim basically "became" Akatosh during the Oblivion Crisis, isnt that a pretty solid proof that the Covenant was indeed between Alessia and Akatosh, and not Shezarr.
Ah, and another question. Why is Talos really considered the 9th divine? I mean, are there really any proof at all that Talos became a god, or even that he was ever in contact with any gods. Sure he was a Dragonborn but thats all. However Alessa was, according to the stories, contacted by Akatosh, the covenant and the Amulet of Kings should be enough proof about that. So basically. The Thalmor are really right. Talos is not a god. But the Covenant between men and Akatosh is however not a lie. Or?
I know that there are some people here that know the Lore in and out. What do you say? The Lore always manage to confuse me haha. — Unsigned comment by 95.209.202.210 (talk) at 03:48 on March 9, 2012
- I'm not sure about Shezarr; it's probably an extrapolation of her relationship to the Shezarrines (I believe Pelinal White-Strake was thought to be one). Might be based on OOG, I don't know off-hand.
- Tiber Septim's apotheosis is rarely if ever discussed. There's some contention that the entity Talos is actually a merger of two or three entities into one divine being. Regardless, there is some proof: in Oblivion, you needed the blood of an Aedra at one point in order to proceed in the main quest, and Tiber Septim's blood is the solution. In Morrowind, it's possible after a certain point in the main quest for the player to encounter a guy, I think his name was Wulf, who was purportedly Talos/Tiber Septim, who gives the player his lucky coin. There's at least one more instance in Morrrowind where the player can encounter an Aedra apparently masquerading under a false name as a normal NPC; in a cave somewhere, if a player levitates (god, how I miss it) up to a high ledge, a woman can be found, and another NPC will later claim you were visited by Mara.
- For now, you can really think whatever you want about what he is or is not, but we have pretty much every reason to believe at this point that Tiber Septim somehow became an Aedra. Minor EditsThreats•Evidence 04:14, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
- So much wrong here, sad to say. Listen to the poster above me; he lists some of the abundant proof of Talos' godhood. The Thalmor know full well that Talos is a god. They aim to take that godhood away by denying his divinity and ending the worship that sustains him.
- Alessia made the Covenant with both Akatosh and Lorkhan. The mechanics get into the deepest of the deep lore and it will forever be beyond the purvey of this site. But I will give you the simple answer, and what we learned from the KotN texts. Alessia made the covenant with Pelinal. And Pelinal is an avatar of Akatosh and Lorkhan simultaneously.Temple-Zero 02:33, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Amulet of KingsEdit
The article states the following: "With the capture of the White-Gold Tower in 1E 243, Alessia declared herself the first Empress of the new Cyrodilic empire, and was given the Amulet of Kings by Akatosh as proof of her claim," using Chim-el Adabal: A Ballad as its source. The book does indeed state, "When Elves lost Nirn to Man, Akatosh gave the stone To Saint Alesh in token of Her right to sit the throne." This language is adapted directly from The Amulet of Kings ("In token of this Covenant..."), which refers to The Covenant between Alessia and Pelinal/Akatosh/Lorkhan. It does not, as far as I can tell, refer to the point at which Alessia is crowned. It could be interpreted that this occurred after the Ayleids were defeated at White-Gold (with some extrapolation) due to the use of the phrase, "When Elves lost Nirn to Man," but I am fairly confident that this in fact refers to the Alessian Slave Rebellion and Alessia's rulership as a whole, considering the amount of time that this book covers (so "lost" is just being used vaguely here). One could also point to the use of the line, "Her Right to sit the throne" as evidence against my claim, but it would not be unreasonable to assume that whatever ESO writer adapted this from The Amulet of Kings was simply mistaken. Other materials on the Amulet of Kings refer to its creation as being at the Covenant, to my knowledge. Alternatively, this phrase could be intentional: Alessia's soul being absorbed into the Amulet of Kings at the Covenant means that, in a sense, she is still sitting on the throne if her descendants are still wearing the Amulet, because the Covenant applies to them as well. I could be missing something, but with this in mind I believe that this particular line about the Amulet of Kings should be removed for being misleading: the reference to the Covenant earlier in the article is perfectly appropriate. —Atvelonis (talk) 17:41, 24 October 2018 (UTC)